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10 arrested for writing gay erotica in China as part of nationwide crackdown
(www.lgbtqnation.com)
this post was submitted on 05 Jan 2025
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If you're going to bother accusing me of something, feel free to find it.
"Let me be clear, I am not a tankie, north korea is an evil, authoritarian state that needs to go down"
^^is literally on the first page of my comments. But you didn't bother reading them, did you? Awfully weird thing to do.
ok buddy i don't care what you do in your free time, tankies are extremely bad for a movement i care about and it's a passion project for me. China is not composed of 14 year olds on hexbear calling me a liberal.
I am a communist, so, there aren't any real anticommunist sentiments beyond anti-tankie ones.
Okay so reading your comments you are clearly very undereducated when it comes to what I would consider basic knowledge of communism. I guess that's okay, I called myself a communist or a socialist when I was knew nothing too. And to be clear, I woke up in a foul mood, and you seem to have irritated it, so I'm sorry for being an ass.
But communism isn't something you believe, its something you do, and messing with tankies only helps the liberals. You should want to educate others about communism, but you don't understand it; so your very communist urge to educate is good, but the subject you are concerned with is a liberal bugbear. I don't doubt there are fake "tankies" on social media, its well documented that right wing groups try to infiltrate the Left, as well as state/military/police all have large social media teams used to manipulate public opinion. But taking this on as a project you are just becoming the dialectical opposite of a "tankie": a bourgeois liberal, which is 1000x more bloodthirsty and destructive of an ideology. Because when you fight something without understanding it, you just become its dark reflection, or many times you become the thing you are opposing. This is apparent because you keep thinking I'm accusing you of being a tankie, you're so worried you'll get confused with them you engage in your own grassroots form of authoritarianism, underwritten by bourgeois liberals.
There are real Stalinists, and I have disagreements with them (and they can't stand me) but they at least are trying to move away from liberalism (except when they become liberals per the mechanism described above), whereas your path to "communism" is just moving you closer. I stand with Stalinists on picket lines, in meetings, in actions, just as a function of the similar work we are doing. Stalin would have purged my ass, but they stand in actual solidarity with workers. What are you doing writing about "tankies" as your passion project? Which is funny since on your beehaw acct you just copy paste the same 3 paragraphs when discussing tankies, so i dont think you actually don't care about writing or understanding anything.
I will never stand next to you with the work you plan to do, because I don't stand with liberals against the boogeyman. So I just think you should either stop calling yourself a communist or actually start trying to do the work to become one.
You don't know what I have and haven't read. Can you show me an area where I misunderstood theory? This just sounds baseless without that.
Messing with tankies? No, correcting the record helps both, communism and self-criticism go hand-in-hand.
You have no idea what i'm concerned about, what my document is like, or my level of education, these are weird guesses. It would be more effective to demonstrate where I have spread a misconception.
I can do more than one thing at the same time, i'm pro-communism, part of making communism palatable is rejecting tankiesm.
This is exactly why I'm working on creating a steelman.
Yes, I misunderstood you, no, that doesn't logically follow. Tankies are a bad branch of communism, just like anarchomonarchists, they need to be critiqued, because their methods are fundamentally wrong. That isn't anticommunist, refining communism is the most communist thing there is.
I agree that stalinists trying to move away from liberalism is a good thing, but stalinism is fundamentally broken because of its authoritarian methods.
Same here, that doesn't mean i can't criticize them.
Talking about the part where they would've purged you. The fewer stalinists, the better communism looks.
Ok. Show me what's wrong with what i've said instead of just saying i've said something wrong. You can quote me. It's weird that you'd resort to vague insults and not do this when your intention is "educating"
Yes, I clearly misunderstood your intention, but I am a communist, and it's not like all i'm working on is anti-tankie writing. I understand your concern as a communist on "anti-communist" writing. But I think you're misguided in your beliefs of what I want. You seem to believe criticising communism means that I am pro-liberalism, for some strange reason.
it's weird that you'd say this while turning me into a boogeyman. I don't stand with liberals.
Whatever, i should have just left it alone. I don't get why you go to every instance taking the name communist, and then engage in a form of anti communism. You give power to our enemies ammunition. You may have a particular definition of what a tankie is, but we are about to enter an era of repression most likely, and you wanna pick fights with people who hate your supposed enemies. If you want to defeat "tankieism (what kind of vaushite language is this) then you would find the good faith ones and try and figure out why they, in good faith, have questionable views, and try to engage politically. Instead you otherize them just like any objectivist bourgeois liberal. And you wonder why I say you stand with libs?
Maybe I don't know what you've read or whatever, but (for example) a biologist would know if someone who wasn't a biologist was just like making biology noises, or if they were legit. I'm not trying to gatekeep, but this anti tankie behavior is lib behavior, its the same one sided "authoritarianism" that the stalinists believe in, justification for purges.
When two contradictory sides mirror each other, like positive and negative, they are one thing, thats basic dialectics. You can steelman all you want, a steelman is just a strawman made out of something shiny (and it prob took the owner too long to put together, but just stands there.)
If you want to move past where the tankies are, because you're stuck with them now, then you have to dump your objectivist worldview.
No, tankies do that themselves. I make the distinction that we're not all like them, and that communism isn't just tankiesm. This argument is fundamentally evil, the notion that I shouldn't perform self-critique because i might find legitimate flaws is an incredibly terrible take.
I do wonder. They are others, they don't just have questionable views, they have horrible ones, like the notion that people should be jailed for writing erotica. There's a reason the anarchist-leninist schism happened, leninists/maoists seem to just want objectively horrible things and control over everything. Do you actually think that will reach people? No. We need to self-criticize, we need to change, not all of our views are deserving of merit. We must use self-criticism to get better, and then, and only then, will we actually reach people in a sensible way.
Furthermore, do you think I don't read these good faith discussions on my own? How do you think i'm creating a steel-man exactly without engaging in this exactly?
Show me an example of a misconception I hold. They would easily be able to do that.
Criticizing a group is justification for purges... This is exactly why the movement needs self-criticism. If all you can say for why i'm a lib is that i criticize things, then you're the one who has lost sight of the movement, not me. Communists need to improve our theories, if our theories are above question, then we've lost the plot.
Objectively nonsense. Do you believe steelman arguments don't exist? Steelman arguments are constructed in a way where the party being steelmanned can simply say it isn't a steelman because of X and then you try again... strawmen are deliberate misunderstandings. These have nothing in common other than you say so.
Self-critique is exactly where theory comes from, y'know. Your opposition to it is actually hilarious, as a communist, self-critique should be the most valuable thing in the world, it's where communist ideology comes from itself.
Sorry but that was a bunch of angry nonsense and you've convinced me that you in fact don't know what you're talking about, you only help the libs when you do this stuff. Stuff like this makes us look awful. Literally nobody is going to become a communist if you say communism is above critique and any critique we do on the movement makes you a lib. People like you prevent people from seeing the truth in communism.
Communists self-critical all the time. I encourage you tk actually go on hexbear and read their struggle sessions. They are constantly arguing about what foreign countries should do and not do, even the communist ones, like China. They critically support it because of its resistance to US imperialism, they don't automatically think everything they do is good. That is the definition of "critical support", a thing no one in lemmy.world seems to understand.
I think you actually need to talk to communists instead of libs before you make this document. You need to engage them in real conversation. You're just going off propaganda news articles and third party hearsay. There aren't any actual tankies in this thread so you're not getting any first-hand information.
It sounds like you're using self-crit as an excuse to recycle and peddle lib propaganda and nonsense. Meanwhile, the US is on the verge of fascism. You're looking for reasons to make people not be communists rather than finding out why people should be.
I said that. You're on the side that they shouldn't be. You're currently begging me not to be self-critical.
Yeah ofc nobody ever said they were all completely unreasonable, you must've imagined that.
already completely the plan... How am I supposed to make a steelman without cooperation from tankies??
Really, you know the full scope of the research i'm doing, which i haven't shared with you and have determined this?
Of course there aren't... why would you assume i'm getting all of my information from this thread or even lemmy?? I just wanted one articles primary source from here... you're making so many bizarre assumptions.
How would you know? Can you give me an example of lib propaganda that i've peddled?
Yes, that's why i'm preparing documents.
Completely wrong, i'm looking for reasons to make people be communists despite the fact that tankies exist and make it sound awful.
I gotta say this is all just a ton of weird assumptions on your part that are completely baseless.
It just comes off as an odd goal to me. The problem isn't that tankies exist. The problem is that the US and the West have been been doing colonization and imperialism to countries for the last 200 years and spent the last 100 saying communism doesn't work and then proving it by destabilizing their democracies, attacking them, funding coups, sanctioning them, selling their enemies weapons, and cutting them out of the Western order; as well as spying on the, blacklisting them, arresting them, and killing them at home. And at the same time putting up a ton of propaganda. The problem is that people don't know history, they don't travel, and they only speak one language so they don't talk to people in the global south except for the conservatives that run and hide here in the West and say how awful it was when someone took their slaves or corrupt business.
As long as the Global South is poorer and in a siege mentality, which will continue for as long as the US military and it's dollar is in charge of the world, communism won't look nice. And that's because capitalism has pushed the West to ravage the world for its resources and continues to do so. Then they compare themselves to Cuba or Vietnam, instead of countries of equal development, like Ethiopia, Haiti, Guyana, or hell, Puerto Rico, which is a capitalist territory in the US and just spent New Year's in the dark.
As for why I jumped to some conclusions, I think it's natural. It's like complaining about black power people being too eager while black people still face huge racism in this country. Imagine if you went into the comment section of a news article about a black person committing a crime and saying, "hey can someone give me the source? I'm making a document of all the crimes black people in the black panthers have done. But I'm not racist, I just think the black panthers go too far and I want other people to know being anti-racist doesn't have to be like that." Meanwhile, they're setting up shelters, food banks, and book clubs, and the FBI is killing them in the streets. That would be suspicious, right?
Maybe only if you knew about those things. Otherwise, you would think the Black Panthers are the bad guys simultaneously thinking you're not a racist, while in actuality you are hurting the cause you purported be for. In the US, they try to cover up the bad they do and the good their "enemies" do all the time, so it's a similar situation. But people don't know what they don't know. Hence the difficulty of researching AES countries using western sources and people.
But I hope it goes well, and maybe with further research and discussions you can find a good path through it. Just keep an open mind.
Seriously, imagine making an "anti-tankies" document after Trump was elected and we're on the verge of fascism in the US, UK, Germany, France, and Canada. There are higher concerns and communists like those are always on the front lines fighting fascism.
Tankie Obsession: an Infantile Disorder (and its not a wonky translation, I mean they have the political education of a baby) by V.I. Lenin