this post was submitted on 18 Sep 2024
415 points (90.9% liked)

World News

39367 readers
3518 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.


Lemmy World Partners

News !news@lemmy.world

Politics !politics@lemmy.world

World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world


Recommendations

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

10-year-old Fatima Jaafar Abdullah was killed in pager explosions in Lebanon.

Israel murders another kid again.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world 75 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (48 children)

I believe the devil's advocate argument would be that, based on Hezbollah's internal communications, the Mossad intercepted a shipment of pagers which were being purchased to replace their (potentially compromised) mobile phones, knowing that these were - in theory - being distributed exclusively to Hezbollah operatives. That would make it the most precise military strike of all time.

Everyone who launches a rocket is accepting the possibility of "collateral damage", but this is surely the most surgical of surgical strikes in history. And yet, yes, they must have accepted the risk of bystander casualties, which just serves to highlight how awful that logic is. It's definitely not worse than randomly firing into a crowd, though.

[–] JWBananas@lemmy.world 48 points 3 months ago (3 children)

That would make it the most precise military strike of all time.

Pretty sure that honor still goes to the R9X Slap Chop. The pager explosions, on the other hand, injured thousands.

[–] HappycamperNZ@lemmy.world 14 points 3 months ago

Fat electrician had a great video on this.

Soo accurate that if the target is in a car you need to know what seat.

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 3 points 3 months ago (2 children)

I really don't get it. Other than the "WAOW" factor, this certainly can't have been a good use of resources for Israel.

[–] prettybunnys@sh.itjust.works 16 points 3 months ago (2 children)

They already believed their communications were being intercepted so switched to another method.

That method then literally blew up in their pockets.

The amount of fear and distrust of the supply chain can’t be overstated.

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 5 points 3 months ago (3 children)

I dunno man. I just feel like if you're at the point where you can clandestinely intercept huge amounts of your enemy's personal communication devices, 'turn them into bombs' feels like a bit of a low-yield outcome.

[–] prettybunnys@sh.itjust.works 4 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Alternately this proves that they still are intercepting their communication AND can intervene in their supply chain.

I assure you that basically every nation state in FVEY (and then Israel by proxy) has the ability to intercept your communication.

This is something that ought to be considered as a basic entry level accepted threat.

NOW they know they have to worry about shit blowing up randomly, brand new stuff.

[–] Aqarius@lemmy.world 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Consider it backwards: Israel sees this attack happening so valuable, that they were willing to forego using the pagers for spying.

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago

Considering Israel's history, I don't know how much agreement there would be between my estimation of military value and the current administration's.

[–] CoCo_Goldstein@lemmy.world 3 points 3 months ago

They thought the pagers were secure communication devices. Now they know they are not. Hezbollah was maybe planning to escalate its attacks on Israel, without good, secure communications, they probably can't. On the flip side, if Israel decides to invade Southern Lebanon to escalate things with Hezbollah, Hezbollah is going to have a much tougher time coordinating its defense since its supposed 'secure' communication system has just been blown up, the previous system (cell phones) what already suspected of being compromised, and now today, walkie-talkies used by the senior Hezbollah leadership have also exploded.

[–] Rekorse@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 months ago

This is not normal for cyber ops. The only thing really that makes sense is if they needed to buy time so set off the pagers. Otherwise they just set their compromised communications devices on fire and told them they did it.

[–] nonailsleft@lemm.ee 10 points 3 months ago (8 children)

In which world getting thousands of Hezbolla operatives unwittingly keeping a bomb in their pocket would not be a good use of resources for Israel?

load more comments (8 replies)
[–] feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world 2 points 3 months ago

I guess I should have qualified that to exclude individual assassinations, otherwise you'd have to include snipers and whatever. I almost don't believe that "knife missile" is real (quotation marks because the only real knife missiles are Culture technology).

[–] Asifall@lemmy.world 24 points 3 months ago (3 children)

I feel like people are missing one of the more heinous aspects of this, which is that it injured thousands of people and only managed to kill ~10 of their targets. The outcome of this attack is going to be general terror and potentially hundreds of life altering injuries but very little military advantage.

[–] Cornpop@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

The advantage is huge. 1000s of militants are now seriously injured and are no longer battle ready. Many will never be again. Massive success for Israel, and one of the most precision strikes ever used. Now there will be fear from any communication devise exploding, there will be 1000s of man hours wasted taking other stuff apart to check it, and morale will be down as well.

[–] leftytighty@slrpnk.net 4 points 3 months ago

Now westerners will worry when lining up for concerts or flights and the increased security expenditure will impact their economy

I guess you support ISIS terror attacks as a brilliant play too?

[–] USNWoodwork@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

How did the compromised pagers not trigger warnings at airport X-rays? I guess lithium batteries and C4 look similar?

[–] dutchkimble@lemy.lol 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

They’re about as similar as a nuclear bomb and a portable garbage disposal system

[–] USNWoodwork@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

So you've seen X-rays of both?

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] HappycamperNZ@lemmy.world 13 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Correct.

Killing civilians isn't a war crime. Deliberately killing civilians, or not taking reasonable steps to minimize civilian casualties is a war crime.

"Small" explosive that is embedded in something passed to and likely worn by the target is unlikely to be a war crime. If they somehow snuck a 1000lb bomb into one it absolutely would be however.

[–] SilentStorms@lemmy.dbzer0.com 16 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

Booby trapping objects associated with daily civilian use is a war crime

These pagers were distributed to doctors and nurses, so I would also argue that they were booby trapping medical supplies, which are protected.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (45 replies)