this post was submitted on 09 Sep 2024
916 points (98.6% liked)

World News

39041 readers
2716 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.


Lemmy World Partners

News !news@lemmy.world

Politics !politics@lemmy.world

World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world


Recommendations

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

Two women who say they were raped and strangled by the controversial social media influencer Andrew Tate have spoken to the BBC about their experiences.

Another woman has alleged, for the first time, she was raped by Mr Tate’s younger brother, Tristan - also an influencer with millions of followers.

The Tate brothers, aged 37 and 36, currently face charges in Romania of human trafficking and forming an organised group to sexually exploit women. Andrew Tate is also charged with rape.

If found guilty, the two men could be jailed for more than 10 years. They strongly deny the charges against them.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 23 points 2 months ago (8 children)

There are so few good male role models for teenage boys. I would have said John Cena at one point, but he's decided to shill for the CCP, so not him either. I honestly don't know who teenage boys can turn to at this point.

[–] Bytemeister@lemmy.world 21 points 2 months ago (5 children)

Maybe young men should build a role-model construct of good qualities they see rather than idolize a single patriarchal figure and seek to emulate them, including their flaws.

Speaking as someone who was fortunate to have a decent dad, and a decent step dad, who were radically different.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 13 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Plenty of kids do not have decent male role models in their life though. That's part of the problem. So they turn to the internet and find people like Tate.

[–] Bytemeister@lemmy.world 6 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I really have no idea how we fix that on the internet. I guess volunteer for big brothers/big sisters if you can.

[–] PeefJerky@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 months ago

The power of anonymity.

[–] TexMexBazooka@lemm.ee 6 points 2 months ago

Ah right, it’s on the children to build their own role models

That isn’t a fair expectation

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 5 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

And why should a random snot-nosed kiddo do that while not having a role model to advise it. Sure, boys have no issue looking for role models when none are in their immediate surroundings -- but then you also run the risk of them seeing "oh, people with money are respected" (after all, capitalism and everything) and "Oh, Tate has money and is confident and is talking to me". The rest is tragedy.

...kinda generational, btw: Reportedly Tate got the way he got by seeing some guy in a Lambo or something (literally or figuratively) spitting on a mechanic or something and saying to himself that he's going to be the guy with the Lambo.

[–] Bennettiquette@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago

such wisdom in these words. i’ve long speculated that our lived experience growing up in a capitalist system (at least the one we’re in) severely warps our concept of admiration in peripheral but profound ways. we don’t have heros, we have brands. tate is a brand, musk is a brand, theil is a brand, as is cena and rogan and so many other influencers. because being a brand makes the vibe/essence/aesthetic being projected feel both real and posessable. it has effectively replaced our social framework for developing an identity with algorithmically profitable assimilation. values? an eye for opportunity is all you really need to be successful.

the reality is we are all beautifully flawed, with gifts and deficits that all deserve to be acknowledged in equal measure.

No one is safe from the gods we create, they all turn on us.

[–] HauntedCupcake@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

This is the pick yourself up by your bootstraps version of raising a child. You can't seriously expect a 12 year old to have enough wisdom and initiative to do this? Why do we have this unrealistic expectation that men are super capable and just choose to be failures? It's the same system that fails everybody else, that's also failing them

[–] Bytemeister@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

You got a solution, or anything new to add to the conversation? Or are you just going to whine like everyone else?

Cause frankly, I don't have a fix for this. At least not one that is overly authoritarian, like controlling every piece of media that is available to children, and creating a guide for what characteristics of different role models should be emulated, and what should be avoided.

Maybe at a certain point, it is up to the individual to form their own set of desirable positive characteristics and seek to incorporate those traits into themselves. We can't (or really shouldn't) just thought and content police everything for every child. They have growth and developement that the must do for themselves, no one else can do it for them.

[–] HauntedCupcake@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago

Are you also against diverse representation in media? That's been pushed for years, and to an extent we've succeeded. There's no reason we can't do the same for male role models

[–] CobblerScholar@lemmy.world 15 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Jason Momoa, Henry Cavill, Hugh Jackman, Dave Bautista, Ryan Reynolds, Guy Fieri to name a few

[–] JustAnotherRando@lemmy.world 7 points 2 months ago

Hank and John Green are pretty good role models, I'd say.

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 3 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

How many of those are talking about how to, bluntly put, score gals and become a man you yourself respect. "Is famous, male, and not an asshole" doesn't really suffice as credentials, here.

[–] HereIAm@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago (2 children)

It's almost like having the life objective to "score gals" isn't a very healthy or good goal to begin with. It's fine to be promiscuous and have lots of partners, but I don't believe the mannosphere is the way to get there.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

But no one is telling them that either.

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee -2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Where, from "bluntly put, score gals" (note the "bluntly") did you get to "life goal" and "promiscuous"? Unless you're ace once puberty hits you're out there trying to get laid. Either sex, everything in between and laterally. Are you trying to shame people for their biological impulses, are you from a cripplingly puritan culture or something.

[–] HereIAm@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I'm sorry, but most people can go through puberty without masturbating in class (something I've been unfortunate to witness). You can have a healthy view on sex even in your teenage hormone phase. That's what sex positive education is about. Those teenagers that crave sex will have it, so it's best to just educate how to be safe about it. Andrew Tate and Trump are the exact opposites of being safe and having fun. Coercing or forcing yourself upon another person is the opposite of good sex. Yes, teenagers make mistakes, but the best we can do is shut down and call Tate and co out for the absolute incels they are.

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee -1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I’m sorry, but most people can go through puberty without masturbating in class

What the fuck are you on about. Why are you bringing up random shit like that. That's the sexual equivalent of smearing shit on the wall, likely due to severe personal trauma/neurosis, and definitely not something that can be addressed by internet role models. It's a case for a psychologist. It also has nothing to do with dating advise.

Andrew Tate and Trump are the exact opposites of being safe and having fun.

I don't think anyone in this whole thread disagrees. Certainly not me. What they do do though is telling you to grab em by the pussy, that's absolutely terrible advise (unless you're in an established relationship then YMMV), but it is advise and in the absence of good advise that's what some kids will latch onto.

They have desires, they have questions on how to go about fulfilling those. If they came to you and asked how to become a doctor, welder, or fashion designer, you'd probably be happy to oblige, but when it comes to finding a sexual partner? Generally, either crickets or terrible advise. From all directions. Most of my dates I got out of organically starting play fights during ordinary hanging out, and if you don't have the attitude to pull it off naturally and without thinking with your dick when doing that that's also terrible advise. But at least it's not lying about the "be nice" / "she's going to hook up with an asshole anyway" (apparent) paradox: There's a difference between harmless and peaceful. Loom like a rollercoaster: Intimidating, yes, but not dangerous. If she wants a ride, she'll get on. How did I learn that? Probably has something to do with my bigger sisters gang-tickling me.

Which, actually, brings me to another structural problem: Kids have too few siblings nowadays and at least in many countries kindergarten, daycares etc. are terrible when it comes to fostering proper social development. In the US they probably arrest 3yolds for stealing scrunchies and sentence them as adults. You don't learn conflict resolution if there's no conflicts around, you don't learn forgiveness if there's nothing people can be sorry for because everything is wrapped in sterile bubble wrap. You also don't learn it if an adult thinks forcing someone to say "sorry" is a resolution, ground zero for tokenism right there.

but the best we can do is shut down and call Tate and co out for the absolute incels they are.

Defeatist. Seriously. "The best we can do"? That attitude is toxic.

[–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)
[–] TrousersMcPants@lemmy.world 8 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Actors are generally the most well known celebrities

[–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

But we generally only see the characters they play.

5 years ago Will Smith may have been on that list.

[–] TrousersMcPants@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

Eh, idk, these actors have generally struck me as pretty decent people. 5 years ago we already knew Will Smith was a Scientologist.

[–] WhatYouNeed@lemmy.world 11 points 2 months ago

There are good male role models. It's just that they are much, much harder to make money off.

Which bloody sucks.

[–] rsuri@lemmy.world 10 points 2 months ago

I can think of several, but it's so cringe to say any of them. There's a disdain for do-gooders in all societies, but especially American society. Which means that it's just not cool to admire someone who is simply a good person.

[–] absGeekNZ@lemmy.nz 4 points 2 months ago (2 children)

You don't only have to look to living people:

Living People:

[–] EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world 7 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Idk Mark Rober has got that scam school thing going on now.

[–] absGeekNZ@lemmy.nz 0 points 2 months ago

It is getting a little obnoxious. But still mostly on the good side.

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

What, Marcus Aurelius and Zeno (not the one who can't shoot arrows btw) but no Diogenes?

[–] absGeekNZ@lemmy.nz 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

To be fair, Diogenes was a cunt of the highest order. Love his work; but not a good role model.

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

He was not the cunt they deserved, but the cunt they needed.

But yes don't embrace statutes.

Emperor Norton, mayhaps?

[–] snow_bunny@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

but if you pick a random guy, he's probably a better role model than tate.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

Yes, but the bar really can't get much lower.

[–] Cadeillac@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago

Coooooody, Cody Rhodes!

[–] StopJoiningWars 1 points 2 months ago

Schwarzenegger is one.