bsergay

Thank you for the elaborate answer! I appreciate it 😊. It's also been instrumental to put your earlier statements into perspective. Incoming long comment...

Blaming users for a lack of proper UX is always the best excuse.

With all due respect, blaming UX doesn't help your case 😅.

Bazzite, a SteamOS clone based on Fedora plus some extra sauce, comes very close to the best UX out there (on desktop Linux). If you choose to blame that instead of (primarily) looking at yourself, then I simply don't know what to say.

Yet the only information I could find by other users of the distro.

Where? I want to see it. A quick search didn't yield anything like that.

The issue you've faced is peculiar for a multitude of reasons:

• It implies you're unaware that Firefox was installed as a flatpak and all of the implications that come with being a flatpak.
• It implies that you lack the most basic knowledge on Flatpak, the primary package manager for GUI apps on Bazzite. That's like not knowing apt/dnf/pacman on Arch/Debian/Fedora.
• It (possibly) implies you were seemingly unaware that about:support contains information on where you may find the profile directory.
• It (possibly) implies you were incapable of reading the correct location from about:support.
• It (possibly) implies you failed to find the location read from about:support.
• It implies you don't know how immutability works on Bazzite. You don't even know which directories are and aren't read-only.

The three points that start with '(possibly)' are especially curious, as they shouldn't have happened in the first place IF you had read the simple instructions on Firefox Profilemaker; which you reference elsewhere. You can blame documentation all you want. But, honestly, I'm not confident you would even make proper use of it based on this awful track record.

I even checked the official documentation, which contained 0 information on Firefox profiles.

Why would it have to mention information on Firefox profiles? This is literally not even an issue. Even referring to it as a 'you problem' would be nice. Same applies to referring to this as 'skill issue'. Which you actually took as offensive (or something), but it was actually just me being nice.

Documentation efforts should be spent on stuff that are otherwise literally undocumented. Firefox profiles works identical across the board. But you somehow failed at it and chose to blame immutability smh and called it quits based on (seemingly) a single user report that I've yet to see/find.

The FF profile manager only led to temporary folders and the absolute path led to an inexistent / invalid one (the one you’d expect them to go normally).

I simply fail to reproduce this. I've got no clue what you were doing. Consider making a video.

So yes, I guess my skills are low

I appreciate your honesty.

but so is the possibility for me to even learn anything when the only barely scrapped info I could find is wrong.

Like, I assume you went to the Firefox profile manager website, downloaded whatever config you ended up with and followed its instructions related to implementing it. When I do this, I just go over the folder as found on about:support, paste it there and done. Like, with all due respect, how did you fail at this? Sorry, I simply fail to understand. Again, consider recording this.

Furthermore, I implore you to link me to the misinformation you've found; I tried finding it on my own, but I simply failed.

No, that and the rpm fusion install page is quite literally exactly what I used.

Thank you for correcting my incorrect assumption. Though, I wonder; did you update your complete system before you applied the steps as found on RPM Fusion's documentation? Knowing that you've been a user of Manjaro for two years, it only makes sense to assume you did. And, if that's the case, then that's an unfortunate bug and/or breakage that you're not guilty of. Consider reporting it.

Then no applications would launch, no UI functions would work and after I hard reset the PC it wouldn’t show me anything but a broken welcome page, which, when closed, left me with a blank black screen and my mouse cursor.

All of this is unexpected behavior. Again, if you did nothing wrong, then this seems to be simply on Fedora. They aren't saints, so they can definitely miss the mark. Though, I can't recall anyone else experiencing this due to legit reasons. However, I am aware there's a first to everything.

I’m not sure what else you would expect me to do when following seemingly official command guidelines. But I guess it’s still my fault after all.

Again, if you updated your system after installation, then did a reboot (perhaps more than one). And finally followed the steps as per RPM Fusion's documentation. Then I simply fail to see what you would have done wrong.

Regarding the distros you've tried and your experiences with them, I would like to note the following:

• Thanks for mentioning Manjaro! I've actually been an avid opponent to its usage. However, so far, I wasn't aware of anyone that had great experiences on it while they had tried a lot of interesting alternatives. Your experience actually successfully portrays a use case in which it seems to offer a superior experience. I suppose your only 'sin' would be to seek another distro while it was doing a pretty good job. Though, I'd have to commend you on your curiosity.
• Your experience with EndeavourOS' community is pretty different from how I recall it. They seemed to be very friendly overall. However, I can't simply dismiss your experience. And while the shittiness of a distro's community is not the best reason IMO to forego its use, I do respect your choice.
• Your experience with openSUSE seems like some strange bug. Again, I can't simply dismiss it, but it's definitely unfortunate.
• With Nobara, yet another pretty freaky breakage. Truth be told; I actually think that breakages as such are unfortunately inevitable. Most distros (especially those that run on the traditional Linux model) are on some timer that will inevitably amount to that.
• Your issue on Bazzite was NOT breakage. Hence, if anything, it deserves a return more than the others do. Furthermore, by now, it should have been clear as day that your issue is actually not even an issue to begin with.
• Breaking yet another distro, this time Fedora, is definitely an accomplishment. At this point, while the possibility definitely exists that there's 0% blame on you; which is actually further supported by the fact that Manjaro lasted pretty long, it's still very very peculiar.

Don't get me wrong. I've crapped my pants with Arch, EndeavourOS and Nobara. So, I very much understand that (semi-)rolling distros are far from perfect and can definitely break at seemingly random times. But, I choose to blame myself:

• I was not very experienced.
• I didn't know best practices related to system management.
• I had no clue what I was doing whenever I was troubleshooting issues.
• I was a newb that didn't spend enough time reading up on documentation.

And, if you choose to equate/define or refer to all of the above as "lack of proper UX", then I got a surprise for you... There are distros to which the above does not apply. So..., why do you choose to stick to distros that are known to be less trouble-free?

Based on the above, a very curious observation would be that you somehow seem to attract problems that are otherwise observed a lot more rarely. At that point, I'm inclined to think that either you or the hardware is the main culprit. I wouldn't blame the software that seems to be working for everyone else. But, that's just me.

Another curious observation would be that you (seemingly) have not tried anything based on Debian (and/or Ubuntu). Are you perhaps biased towards it? Or, are you simply aware that your hardware is too new for it (which I doubt unless you've continually changed to newer hardware in the past two years)? Or, you simply consciously choose to use 'more current' distros for whatever (perhaps legit) reason. Please feel free to inform us on this.

Especially since absolutely no one is willing to help and rather throws insults and personal attacks around when facing people who struggle with all the major bugs.

So, in my experience, the community has been lovely at large. Sure, it ain't perfect, but what even is. Therefore, I'm sorry to hear that your experience has been different. Though, again, it might be the community reacting to someone they perceive as misinformed OR not diligent on making it work OR not being helpful towards those offering help.

Furthermore, I've actually not found any post of yours in hopes of resolving any of these issues. Perhaps you chose to ask individual users in comments instead, but your track record on Lemmy doesn't portray you as someone that's diligent on solving the problem. For example, regarding Bazzite, if you had just joined their Discord and asked your question there, then they would have solved the issue for you that very moment and you wouldn't have made a joke out of yourself.

Though, I understand you might have lost interest to engage with communities like that based on some past experiences (e.g. with EndeavourOS' community as you had already pointed out). FWIW, a single bad experience shouldn't have deterred you from ever (re)commencing and/or (re-)engaging.

Regardless, again, thanks for your elaborate answer. At this point, it genuinely makes most sense to me if you choose to give Bazzite another go if you're willing to stick to distros with (at least relatively) up to date packages. If not, then consider trying something based on Debian (and/or Ubuntu) for once. Perhaps it's the one thing you actually needed. Or, simply return back to Manjaro if it most successfully managed to satisfy your needs without putting you into too much trouble.

I could probably summarize your experience as "skill issue".

I don’t understand the hype of immutables, or usability even.

I suppose this article/blogpost by Lennart Poettering should suffice. Though, this article/blogpost by Colin Walters is also cool.

I tried Bazzite today after Nobara nuked itself, and I couldn’t even paste my old Firefox profile since the actual folder apparently sits within the immutable folder structure.

This is simply false as pointed out by others already.

I didn’t even have time to reach the software limitations with how fast I tried the next distro.

You will have a very hard time on Linux with that mindset. And, to be honest, literally any OS you aren't already familiar with.

Still hopping though, because apparently Fedora just nukes itself when you try to install codecs

I wouldn't be surprised if you just searched this through your favorite search engine and settled with whatever random solution you came across instead of relying upon RPM Fusion's documentation on the matter.

and I think I have about every major distro tested by now.

While this could be true, I wonder what prevented you from sticking with any one of them.

Linux is cursed.

It's definitely a lot harder if you've got major skill issues.

Thanks for clarifying!

IMO immutable distros aren’t a best fit for a desktop computer. It can do so much more than gaming and turning it into a dedicated console is a step back if a normal linux distro can do just as well.

I would personally nuance this to: "Current iterations of 'immutable distros' that have evolved from traditional distros haven't matured sufficiently yet to tackle 99.99% of the use cases 'easily'." The exact number on the percentage I don't know. I believe most people that use their PCs as a glorified app launcher should be more than fine. But we start experiencing major difficulties the very moment that (a)kmods are involved; some of which are 'supported'~ish, while others certainly aren't.

But, I simply fail to see why a future iteration would not be able to solve related issues.

Those definitely amount to a major difference. Thanks for clarifying!

Thank you. This does give an idea.

It has been my pleasure.

Follow up question : Is Arch really that good?

Depends entirely on your needs. There is a use case for Arch. However, if you're completely new to Linux, then it's very likely that a 'slower'-moving distro (like (anything based on) Debian (or Ubuntu)) might better suit you.

Wait for Ubuntu Core Desktop to come out.

It’s a steering wheel driver.

Could you perhaps be more precise? Is it a specific one? Or are there a multitude of steering wheel drivers that satisfy your needs?

And virtualbox.

Do you specifically need VirtualBox? Or would Qemu/KVM satisfy your needs?

IIRC VirtualBox requires kernel mods. Therefore, you would have to create your own images 😅 in which said kernel mod is included. FWIW, both uBlue's templates and BlueBuild do a wonderful job at streamlining this process.

Or..., as alluded before, you don't necessarily need VirtualBox. But, instead, Qemu/KVM perfectly satisfy your needs. Then, you can just run ujust setup-virtualization. After which you reboot, and you would be good to go.

What's preventing you to install that single package through rpm-ostree?

Unsurprisingly, usage numbers for distros are hard to get due to lack of telemetry and what not.

However, some measurements do exist; like data from ProtonDB. These are used by Boiling Steam for their excellent reports in which some representation regarding usage across distros can be found. Their most recent report can be found here.

Note, however, that the following, as has been excellently touched upon by Boiling Steam, applies:

COMMON MISCONCEPTIONS

Since we hear some of the following comments EVERY SINGLE TIME, let’s address them here and now:

• “Duh, it’s not representative of Linux usage in general!”: And nowhere does it claim to be. As often as possible we make it clear this is Linux usage in a gaming context. The usage of Debian and Ubuntu on servers is safe for now, no need to panic.

They offer ovpn configs that I can just add to the Network Manager, but a part of me doesn’t want to give up!

Does running the .run script do substantially and functionally more than putting the ovpn configs in Network Manager?

I’ll be back the moment Wayland works better.

You mentioned in a comment that you used Arch, Debian and EndeavourOS. Though, historically, Wayland has been adopted first on Fedora. Therefore, I wonder if underutilizing Fedora (and/or derivatives like Bazzite/Nobara) might have been the main culprit in this case.

Been trying for days to install Private Internet Access’s client in a custom Bazzite image, but it’s slow-going to troubleshoot each failure to build, and I feel like I’m fighting GitHub more than the install script.

Have you contacted the Discord servers for Bazzite/uBlue and/or BlueBuild in hopes of resolving the issue?

They're cool and very much willing to help out. They solved my issues a bunch of times with my own custom image. Perhaps, they are even capable of offering a solution to resolve the problem without requiring a custom image.

Wish ya good luck!