this post was submitted on 17 Jun 2024

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-107

Israel doesn't have the right to exist (lemmy.ml)

submitted 5 months ago by Confidant6198@lemmy.ml to c/memes@lemmy.ml

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[–] davel@lemmy.ml 10 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Reporter: [REDACTED]
Reason: so suggesting genicide is ok?

Have the Zionists ever done a number on people.

Reporter and @SatansMaggotyCumFart@lemmy.world, what if I told you a people is not a state?

[–] SatansMaggotyCumFart@lemmy.world -3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I didn’t report the meme, I just commented on it.

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 2 points 5 months ago

I know, and sorry, I didn’t mean to imply that you did.

[–] argv_minus_one@mstdn.party 6 points 5 months ago

@Confidant6198

You really should clarify whether you mean the state or the people.

States don't have rights (they exist at the pleasure of their citizens), but people do.

[–] LittleBorat2@lemmy.ml 5 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

Since you like apartheid comparisons. Do the whites in south Africa have a right to exist? I would say yes.

Its a question of coexistence and how that is going to look like.

But hey nice radical and easy solution to a complex problem. Kudos for going the extra mile cognitively!

[–] cybersin@lemm.ee 16 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Are you trying to equate the ideology of a political regime with a minority population of South Africans?

South Africa had no right to exist as an apartheid state, and Israel has no right to exist as an apartheid state.

After apartheid ended and living conditions improved, black South Africans didn't go and slaughter every white South African as retribution, so when Israel says freed Palestinians would slaughter all Israelites, why should we believe them?

If the occupation ended today and Palestinians were allowed to live fairly and given ample resources to rebuild, what reason would they have to seek further conflict? If treated fairly, why would Palestinians act any differently than the South Africans freed from apartheid? This conflict is ultimately the direct result of unfair treatment after all.

[–] LittleBorat2@lemmy.ml 5 points 5 months ago

Maybe a disclaimer ahead: it's absolutely atrocious what Israel is doing in Gaza. Leveling it and probably filling it with Jews when rebuilding it. The whole thing is a 911 like overreaction and I do not support any of it.

Does not matter what some court says it is or not. That piece of land will most likely be ethnically cleansed.

At the same time saying Israel has no right to exist can mean many things from not in it's current form to all Jews in the sea. That's the problem with dumbass slogans like this.

[–] Lumidaub@feddit.de 4 points 5 months ago

Depends on what "right to exist" means here.

[–] boatsnhos931@lemmy.world 3 points 5 months ago

Nobody has the right to exist Morpheus... You must fight for it. Rights are just a human construct and one of the greatest lies contained within the matrix.

[–] fl42v@lemmy.ml 1 points 5 months ago

Well, duh. All governments are cancer

[+] SatansMaggotyCumFart@lemmy.world -17 points 5 months ago (2 children)

That’s an antisemitic statement.

[–] DmMacniel@feddit.de 25 points 5 months ago (1 children)

No this one would be anti-zionistic.

[+] zloubida@lemmy.world -13 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Denying the Jews the right to self-determination that all other peoples have is antisemitic.

Israel is a criminal state that should be stopped. But we can do that, we should do that, without antisemitism.

[–] SatansMaggotyCumFart@lemmy.world 16 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Denying the Jews the right to self-determination that all other peoples have is antisemitic.

Palestine doesn’t have that right right now, and that is because of Israel.

How do you think that should be righted?

[–] zloubida@lemmy.world -2 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

The goal should be the two states solution. It won't be possible if there isn't a strong international pressure on Israel. Again, Israel is a criminal state and should be treated as such. So is Russia, and nobody publishes memes on how Russia has no right to exist.

[–] DmMacniel@feddit.de 8 points 5 months ago (1 children)

We have seen how well the two states solution worked in the last 50 years.

[–] zloubida@lemmy.world 2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I never saw a strong international pressure to make Israel comply.

[–] Confidant6198@lemmy.ml -5 points 5 months ago

There has always been a strong international pressure against it. But the USA always vetos any resolution against Israel. The USA controls the UN.

[–] meekah@lemmy.world 5 points 5 months ago

I agree two states are probably the most realistic solution to the current situation. But I don't think Israel should have been established by colonial powers in the first place.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Nobody is suggesting that, people are arguing in favor of dismantling a fascist ethno-state.

[–] zloubida@lemmy.world -3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

It would be replaced by what?

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 9 points 5 months ago (1 children)

A single state solution over Palestine and former Israel, with equal citizenship.

[–] zloubida@lemmy.world -5 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Thus you're denying the right of self determination for the Jew people. QED.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 8 points 5 months ago (1 children)

How?

[–] zloubida@lemmy.world -4 points 5 months ago (3 children)

If the Jew people of Palestine want the independence, who are we to deny it? The only moral solution in this case is the two states solution.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 7 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Ethnostates are bad, and right now we have a fascist ethno state destroying people.

[–] zloubida@lemmy.world -4 points 5 months ago (3 children)

Israel is a lot of things, but not an ethnostate. Falashas and Sefardim aren't white, and they're recognized as citizens as much as Ashkenazim, at least legally (there is racism between Jews in Israel too, but it's the case everywhere).

I don't understand why Israel is the only criminal State in the world that progressive people want totally destroyed. Russia, Iran, Syria, … are imperialist criminal states too, and progressive people “only” want their government changed. I want the fascist government of Israel overthrown, but I have no right to call for the destruction of the country itself. The only difference is Judaism.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 6 points 5 months ago

Israel is an ethno-state centered around Jewish identity. That is the literal entire point.

Israel is not the only fascist state that should he totally destroyed, of course others should be. The US is probably the biggest cause of conflict and exploitation worldwide.

[–] andrewrgross@slrpnk.net 4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I think you could argue this before the passage of the Nation State Law of 2018. But now it's enshrined in law that the state exists to privilege Jews specifically and selectively. That's really putting it all in black and white.

Also I get asked about why I didn't criticize China or Russia or Iran etc, and the reasons are simple:

I do
my tax dollars didn't support their misdeeds and
I'm Jewish, so I have a huge investment in Israel's actions. They insist that I be judged by their actions, so now I have to get involved. Also, I actually like Israel. I'd like it to be a liberal, multi ethnic democracy and not just another Middle Eastern martial theocracy with a Jewish twist.

[–] zloubida@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I think you didn't understood me. I'm criticizing Israel. It's a criminal state.I just say that to criticize Israel and saying that Israel.shouldn't exist are two different things.

[–] andrewrgross@slrpnk.net 0 points 5 months ago

Oh, I see. Thank you for the clarification.

[–] andrewrgross@slrpnk.net 5 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Hold on a sec: self determination is always within the context of recognizing the right of self determination of other groups and the basic human rights of everyone involved.

Also, Israel already has millions of Palestinian citizens. And all of these people deserve a say in what the resulting arrangement looks like.

A two state solution is one possibility, but there is no strict requirement that it is the only or best way to serve the needs of those involved.

[–] zloubida@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago

A two state solution is one possibility, but there is no strict requirement that it is the only or best way to serve the needs of those involved.

It's true. But it's not for us to decide.

[–] Confidant6198@lemmy.ml -5 points 5 months ago (1 children)

“Self determination” to oppress others lmao. Fascism is not self determination.

[–] zloubida@lemmy.world 2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Israel is a country. Fascism is a type of government.

You can want the end of the fascist government without wanting the end of the country.

[–] Confidant6198@lemmy.ml -4 points 5 months ago

Israel is a fascist settler colonial apartheid regime. Israel is an ethno religious state. Israel must be destroyed like yesterday! That land belong to the Palestinians! Free Palestine! Fuck Israel!

[–] meekah@lemmy.world 17 points 5 months ago

Not really. It doesn't deny Jews the right to exist, just the Jewish ethno state that was established by colonial powers.