agile is far left too. I will die on this hill : memes

[–] Fargeol@lemmy.ml 133 points 5 months ago (2 children)

[–] Chuymatt@beehaw.org 7 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Jeazus! Is that a gumdrop iMac?!

[–] caseyweederman@lemmy.ca 6 points 5 months ago

No it's Satan

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[–] cypherpunks@lemmy.ml 122 points 5 months ago (5 children)

shoutout to the person who reported this post with "Reason: Bot meme, you can't even read it. whoever replies is a bot too" 😂

[–] manicdave@feddit.uk 36 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Lmfao

[–] Valmond@lemmy.world 17 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Text is unreadable though

[–] manicdave@feddit.uk 5 points 5 months ago

I'm blaming imgflip, not my incredible laziness

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[–] Prox@lemmy.world 15 points 5 months ago

beep beep boop

FTFY

[–] PsychedSy@lemmy.dbzer0.com 22 points 5 months ago

What's funny is they could have made an actually funny joke about marxists.

[–] DAMunzy@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Beep boop, comrade.

-pinko bot probably

[–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 7 points 5 months ago

Nice

[–] darkphotonstudio@beehaw.org 5 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I am a meat popsicle.

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[–] Skepticpunk@lemmy.world 67 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Hmm. Self-organizing projects whose workers work on them entirely based on their need to be done, and the results freely distributed to anyone who wants a copy?

Literal fascism, obviously.

[–] BoxOfFeet@lemmy.world 23 points 5 months ago (9 children)

Things like FOSS stuff makes you think people can organize and work together freely to achieve a common goal, and maybe anarchy could work. But then, you see a busy intersection when the traffic lights go out and you realize the general public are idiots and everything devolves into selfish chaos as you're stuck a half mile back, as cars shoot through in no particular order and you inch closer to the madness terrified to make your left turn. I have zero trust in society without some form of rule and order.

[–] Jakeroxs@sh.itjust.works 24 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

Think about a roundabout though in comparison, no lights or specific order, and there is a learning curve, but overall they reduce traffic better then stoplights under many conditions.

I guess my point is sort of extrapolating that a structure/presentation also heavily influences how users perceive or use a product/idea

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[–] Zehzin@lemmy.world 12 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Decentralization doesn't necessarily mean disorganization. You can create a Lemmy instance with no moderation and rely purely on the community itself to self moderate, much like someone can create an instance with rules, and if someone disagrees with the rules they can create their own. Both are part of a decentralized system, so no one is actually coerced into participating in any system by regulation, just social pressure.

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[–] wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 5 months ago (2 children)

whose workers work on them entirely based on their need to be done

You mean there's projects out there where it's not a bunch of individual devs all working on their personal pet features and ignoring all else?

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[–] Zehzin@lemmy.world 62 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

Lemmy's biggest mistake was not calling federations "communes" or "syndicates"

[–] cr1cket@sopuli.xyz 6 points 5 months ago

Well, who said the c in c/something is NOT commune? ;-)

[–] space_comrade@hexbear.net 24 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (3 children)

Agile is the anarchism of software development: sounds nice on a high level but basically no theoretical foundation behind it and thus in practice everybody makes it whatever the fuck they want it to be.

[–] Esqplorer@lemmy.zip 7 points 5 months ago

Which is how anarchism has played out so far lol

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[–] intensely_human@lemm.ee 23 points 5 months ago (4 children)

Yes FOSS is communism, spontaneously arising under capitalism, requiring zero bloody revolutions.

Marx was right about the need for people to be nice and give things to each other, but he was wrong about it being necessary to destroy capitalism before this happened.

[–] volodya_ilich@lemm.ee 12 points 5 months ago

FOSS isn't communism, Foss hasn't eliminated class relations. Using an free open source library to make more money for your boss isn't communism. While I love FOSS, it's definitely not communism.

Marx never said people aren't nice and don't give things to each other under capitalism as far as I know, where are you taking that from?

And the existence of FOSS is reliant on a few key sectors which capitalism could very well destroy or mutate into something much different than what they are now. I don't see far-fetched the idea that the entire physical infrastructure of the internet will one day be privately owned, and companies will be able to decide who takes part and who doesn't, what kind of content is allowed... The fact that the capitalist overlords still haven't eliminated it, doesn't mean they possibly can't.

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[+] ID411@lemmy.dbzer0.com 21 points 5 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

[deleted]

[–] verstra@programming.dev 26 points 5 months ago (41 children)

programming.dev does not get it. Can you explain?

It is kinda obvious that maxist ideas are aligned with the open source ideas. Are they very much against commies?

[–] manicdave@feddit.uk 35 points 5 months ago (3 children)

There's some weird witch hunt going on against Dessalines on there. I don't agree with him on everything, but them trying to hound him out for being a communist, whilst using software he made because he's a communist is kinda funny.

[–] GregorGizeh@lemmy.zip 40 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Honestly I am dismayed we have this dumb ass reddit culture take hold. Not everything you disagree with must be ~~bannned from the sub~~ defederated immediately, your instance doesnt owe you a feed that's exactly how you like it. Defederation should be the last resort, since it entirely breaks communication and interaction between the instance's users.

Instead, use the client side blocking features to clean up your feed. Personally I have blocked over 80 communities and users because they are centered around topics or beliefs I dont want on my feed, I blocked two instances as well, but I can still read their user's comments and interact with their users outside the instances.

Defederating is just splintering the fediverse. Unless at all avoidable it shouldn't be done, in fact I chose my instance specifically because it defederates nobody but meta and illegal content such as gore and csam.

[–] r00ty@kbin.life 11 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I always saw open source as more socialist than specifically communist. Similar to volunteering in your community. Except the community is the whole world, and you don't need to leave your house. Bonus!

[–] manicdave@feddit.uk 11 points 5 months ago

To be honest I'd say it's more similar to anarchism than socialism. Anarchism is voluntarist whilst socialism demands state power first. Both are ideally paths to communism* though so I'm going to say "communism" 'cause it annoys the most people.

communism as in post capitalist, post state utopia, not Stalinism*

[–] Tarquinn2049@lemmy.world 9 points 5 months ago (5 children)

Him being communist isn't the problem, throwing his weight around unnecessarily is what is upsetting people. And he just keeps doing it. Like he just gets in a mood and decides to ban a bunch of people for fake violations they didn't actually do. It's all logged and people with high enough status can see the logs. He goes on tirades.

[–] Sorse@discuss.tchncs.de 15 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Aren’t the logs accessible to everyone? https://discuss.tchncs.de/modlog

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[–] pjwestin@lemmy.world 29 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (19 children)

Not exactly. This started yesterday, when a user accused mods on .ml of, "tankie censorship," (meaning censorship by tankies, not of tankies). He also came with some pretty good receipts that appear to show .ml mods removing criticism of China that, whether you agree with it or not, didn't seem to violate any rules, and was well within the bounds of what most people would consider civil discourse. He also claims to have received bans from all of the .ml communities he'd ever participated in for pointing this bias out. It's possible he's presenting all of this with his own slant, but what he showed seems legit, and I'm not sure he could have provided more evidence without encouraging brigading.

This is now starting to snowball, with users starting to call for defederating from .ml. One .world user also posted on .cafe about Dessalines previous tankie comments, while another user has posted about finding replacements for the largest .ml communities.

So, saying what's happing on .world is anti-communist isn't accurate, as most the criticism has been anti-tankie. However, .world has a much higher level of liberals than most of Lemmy (they created a little echo chamber for themselves on Political Memes), and most of them are incapable or unwilling to understand the difference between a tankies and communists (or tankies and leftists...or tankies and criticism of Biden...). So, it will probably only be a matter of time before this group tries to blur the line between valid criticism of baised moderation from authoritarian apologists to general criticism of leftists.

So, tl;dr: .world isn't broadly anti-communist, but a large portion of the community is upset about what appears to be biased moderation from tankie .ml mods, and there is a small contingent of .world liberals who I'm sure will take this opportunity to bash anyone to their left.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 13 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (7 children)

The problem with this is that "Tankie" is a sliding target, including all Marxists. If you claim to only have a problem with Tankies, not all Marxists, but do your best to attack the majority of Marxists, does that mean the majority of Marxists are Tankies, or that .world has become an anticommunist instance?

I'd say this will only end up creating a multipolar Lemmy. Dessalines has already stated that .ml will not be the first to defed, as they believe in an interconnected Lemmy. However, the target boogyman for .worlders has shifted from Grad, to Hexbear, to now .ml. After .world finally defeds from .ml, will they shift towards db0? Lemm.ee, perhaps? Who knows.

This isn't the first time this has happened, haha.

[–] VinesNFluff@pawb.social 5 points 5 months ago

Tankie used to have a specific and clear meaning

But then people not in the know learned the word without caring what it meant

So now it just means "guy that I think is an asshole (leftist beliefs optional but expected)"

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[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 14 points 5 months ago (3 children)

.world is basically Reddit 2, but filled with the most radical liberals that specifically want to not be exposed to leftist instances, even db0 has a tenuous relation with them.

.world is constantly on anticommunist witch hunts, and now that Lemmygrad and Hexbear are not visible to them thanks to defederation, .ml is the last large Marxist-aligned instance they can see, so it's the new boogeyman.

One of them tried to tell me Lemmy is Capitalist because posting is value, lmao

[–] Zehzin@lemmy.world 16 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Posting is labor 🫡

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 5 months ago

Smh Dessalines is taking my labor power

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[–] inlandempire@jlai.lu 16 points 5 months ago (12 children)

I'm curious about your agile theory now !

[–] manicdave@feddit.uk 21 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (3 children)

It's half way to self management.

Software exists in a world that kind of exists outside of property. Cynics like to think that Agile got big because as some kind of fad because the kids love it, but the reality is that fully hierarchical models just cannot keep up with self organising teams.

The old model - the model that most of the rest of the world of work still uses - simply cannot compete on a level playing field where the means of production (a cheap computer) are available to all. A landowner can stop you building your own house, but Microsoft can't really stop you building your own software, so they still have to put in work to collect rent.

Imagine what we could accomplish as a species if the goals and distribution of resources were also decided democratically.

[+] 087008001234@lemmy.ml 5 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

[deleted]

[–] manicdave@feddit.uk 5 points 5 months ago (2 children)

My point isn't actually about the software.

Agile is a limited form of workplace democracy that succeeded because the usual forms of disciplining workers couldn't be enforced to stop it. It's taken off in software because the outlay for software is so low that people can just quit their jobs and start a rival project with preferable working conditions. It's stuck around because it's significantly more effective than dictat.

I have problems with agile too. A lot of the "ceremonies" seem more like cult rituals and bad practices are often assumed to be self justifying when they should be interrogated. (I once had a bust up in the office because I insisted in creating a future proof test framework instead of writing just what's needed at the time. I was overruled and I'm still mad about it).

So I guess my point isn't even about the specific agile practices either.

The point is that workers are able to self manage when they're allowed to, and agile has accidentally proven this to be the case. Other work places should adopt some of these ideas. And these ideas should be pushed further, into business decisions and HR and management. And physical communities etc. all the way up to actual government.

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[–] General_Effort@lemmy.world 15 points 5 months ago

But it's not "from each according to his ability". FOSS is what people feel like contributing. And it's not "to each according to their need". It's take it or leave it, unless someone feels like fulfilling requests.

Traditionally, the slogan meant a duty to work. Contributing what you feel like is just charity.

Capitalism, at its core, is private control of the capital. Copyright law turns code into intellectual property/capital. I've read the argument that copyleft requires strong copyrights. That argument implicitly makes copyleft a feature of capitalism. You know how rich people or corporations sometimes donate large sums to get their name on something, EG a hospital wing? That's not so different from a FOSS license that requires attribution.

[–] nifty@lemmy.world 7 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

FOSS works with the quoted text for the same reason piracy is not technically stealing. How do you make the quoted text work with physical goods or services? How do you allocate the work of a cosmetic surgeon, or distribute nail polish?

Edit to give examples that are more cis male oriented: how do you distribute viagra in an equitable manner? Basically I am asking where do non-utilitarian services or Veblen goods fit into this paradigm. Technically we don’t need computers to survive and mate, so that mitigates the need for FOSS

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[–] cosmicrookie@lemmy.world 6 points 5 months ago

Needs more pixels

Memes

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