I still flip flop between ML and anarchism to be honest. I'm ML because of climate change time constraints but anarchist in heart.
Really what I care about is improving things. And I will use whatever toolbox seems to be the best option under the conditions in order to achieve that.
the centrist leftist take
Am I an ML? An anarchist? Who cares, I just wanna grill (the rich)
A friend of mine always says "I'm an ML now so I can be an anarchist one day in the future"
that's a good one
I have been converted to third worldism by all the contradictions. Something global historical materialism something super exploitation.
I think third worldism is about to be ripped apart by climate change. We're going to see a very very rapid destabilisation occur from climate refugee movements numbering in the tens of millions. It took just thousands of Syrian refugees to provoke huge EU destabilisation that led to Brexit, Greece, Italy, far right movements, etc etc... What's going to happen when the numbers are in the millions is going to blow it out of the water.
This rapid destabilisation is going to create a lot of revolutionary events.
Won't that just accelerate fascism though? Though I guess you could apply the same argument to the third world as well, in terms of anti colonial nationalism that doesn't go anywhere.
Yes. But everything that creates revolutionary conditions also accelerates fascism. It will win in some places, but I'm also quite sure that it will lose in others. We can not change the fact that these conditions are coming so we can only figure out what we're going to do within them.
My belief is that we should be preparing for this situation so that we can act when it comes.
I agree with you there 100%. We need to prepare now
Yeah I would love for it to be possible for us to simply build our new world and show people a better way, but we are running out of time and more authoritarian measures are going to be necessary.
"more authoritarian measures are going to be necessary."
Welp, that's the gotcha for calling you 'tankie' according to these people.
Use state measures, and they would treat you as oriental orc with no sense... get crushed by authoritarians and they will publicly worship you while secretly celebrating a progressive defeat towards reaction...
Edit: I'm pro-Nakoichi, just to clarify...
it all depends on whether by "authoritarian" the liberals mean "classes, hierarchies, oppression, bigotry and exploitation" or if they simply mean "using violence to bring an end to classes, hierarchies, oppression, bigotry and exploitation." I find that they tend to mean the latter. Hence, I leave it to Engels:
and also, oddly enough, Mark Twain:
I've definitely found myself exploring outside of the purist/dogmatic ML takes you tend to find from white cis het ML on twitter etc.
I consider myself a socialist and since I'm working towards communism eventually then im a ML because its what helps define communism within a industrialised nation right? That label would fit but living in the imperial core I view our struggle currently as less an adventurist revolutionary fantasy on the horizon like I think a lot of newer ML fall into and instead I see what must be done based not on the material conditions of the USSR and orthodox ML but ML applied to for me the UK.
So that for me is building local community, education, uplifting and building local socialism whether it's mutual aid or whatever.
Like I just don't see any form of large macro change happening in fortress Europe until people's economic conditions really force their hand. When that happens whoever gets into power will be defined by the foundation of understanding around economics, either we slide into fascism or we rise to socialism I think.
Therefore for me I feel I'm doing right by engaging in local community stuff to build the foundations for socialism and eventually communism or whatever flavor of socialism we end up with frankly.
Conversely if we did what I think a lot of newer ML want and have a big barney now, even if the socialist won, we'd have our base slaughtered in the fighting by thr armies and police of our own states and have no larger prole force to create a dictatorship of the proletariat to start with losing our hard fought win to oppotunist fascism supported by the police and militaries.
So yeah I totally kinda get you cos while I'd say I'm ML, I feel really I'm just happy with any form of socialism and my ML combined with an intersectional analysis of minority struggle is how I analyse society as I see it.
Tl;Dr I just want to improve things too and feminism, intersectionality etc with broader socialist understanding vs specific ideological frameworks is how I've find the most success is improving things locally.
We definitely need several conditions to change in the UK before anything revolutionary occurs I'm with you there. Some things are economic and some others could be pushed via some electoral policies, although I don't see a pathway to electoral policies with Starmer and the purge he pulled. A lot of union sentiment has improved, but translating into new union members? I'm not seeing it happen fast enough. Another issue is the misogyny and bigotry that currently exists among MLs in the UK, created by the bizarre attempt at allying themselves with terfs and appealing to the man down the pub. This has been created by tories posing as the bloke down the pub to appeal to reactionaries, and somehow MLs have bought it as the depiction of the average working class person of the UK which is just plain nonsense, they're trying to appeal to a caricature created by the bourgeoisie. Undoing this false mindset is very important to get MLs focused on the actually-vulnerable people, problem is that leadership in these parties is pushing it and there isn't any way to dislodge that leadership without massive entryism from lgbt people who have already almost all left those parties.
I view our struggle currently as less an adventurist revolutionary fantasy on the horizon like I think a lot of newer ML fall into
I don't think there is any problem with having a laser-focus on achieving revolution. It should be the question that guides all work we do, how our work contributes to future revolution, what prerequisites must be met, etc etc. While it's not available as an option right now we should be identifying prerequisites needed for it and working to achieve them.
"tankie" has become such a pavlovian response to these people that the second they hear it they've decided they no longer need to consider anything this person might have to say. Like conservatives the second they hear something is "woke" and they throw a tantrum
I haven't come across any Anarchist theory that explicitly forbids tanks... 
i gotta say i literally do not give a fuck if an ML state or anarchism happens first or whatever. I JUST WANT THIS HELL TO BE OVER 
Funny you should say https://twitter.com/RefuseRaccoon/status/1488653392389890049
That's basically the stance I put forth in my pinned twitter thread lol
classic mistake. u see, tankie-ism is when you criticize people who love genocide. hope that helps!
It's just really funny when like, look at my pfp lol
tbf i think these people think anarchists are tankies
they dont have a concept of what the word actually means
tankie just means "anyone to the left of me", exhibit #10392
tankie has been rhetorically whittled down from its original 1950s CPGB infighting meaning to just a worthless slander against any and all anti-imperialists, regardless of political tendency.
That user's instance defederated with us.
Not because of your exchange but because they thought these posts were serious
I'm sorry what's wrong with those screenshots? I see not a single problem in any one of those screens????????? Jokes about Blahaj, the IMF and some other stuff, staying inside Hexbear, is not a reason to defederate at all. Weird.
People having a good time joking among themselves on Hexbear is not disruptive behaviour. It's not trolling, it's not disruptive, it's not harassment or abuse. Are there tankies here? Damn right there are. There are also anarchists, democratic socialists and there's probably a socdem hiding somewhere that hasn't yet been bullied too much for being a lib. This is just anticommunism. "Tankie instance" is just "they allow communists". It's incredible colony-brained shit, these people need to decolonise their minds.
One of the screenshots is literally just someone explaining how our custom emojis work lmao wtf
these fuckers just can't stop lying. how is it possible that so many people keep repeating that we mass-downvote posts when we literally disabled downvotes years before federating
I'm doing my part!
How did they not recognize the Grover Iraq pasta. Netizens these days have no appreciation of history.
Sorry I got us further defederated. I thought that if I was more pro-American, it would appease these anti-tankies.
pawb.social just stated that they're “the Furry Community's hub on Lemmy.” Will someone from their depleted and neoliberal instance please inform them that we too have a Furry Community, but it is a much bigger & more powerful one than theirs, and our Furries can shitpost!
Aww I was having fun with one of them, I almost got them to post a whole source to back up their claims!
LALALALALALA I CANT HEAR YOUUUU I CANT HEAR YOUUU
A real anarchist would wholeheartedly believe CIA and fascist propaganda pieces about their ideological enemies. 
It’s been real funny watching lemmy ppl call users whose views I’ve developed a nuanced understanding of tankies.
That person you're replying to refers to themselves as both an anarchist and socialist, I think their political understanding is non existent
Last thing she told me was that she was an 'anarcho-socialist'
Wikipedia page level ideology
Considering Auswitchz is the main symbol for the holocaust, and Ukrainian tankies liberated it, you do have the right to lecture westoids about genocide
I'm sorry comrade, its not the same but you can still spell your user name with an 
for now until that "smart cookie" decides you can be an anarchist again 
It's the dunk tank.
This is where you come to post big-brained hot takes by chuds, libs, or even fellow leftists, and tear them to itty-bitty pieces with precision dunkstrikes.
Rule 1: All posts must include links to the subject matter, and no identifying information should be redacted.
Rule 2: If your source is a reactionary website, please use archive.is instead of linking directly.
Rule 3: No sectarianism.
Rule 4: TERF/SWERFs Not Welcome
Rule 5: No ableism of any kind (that includes stuff like libt*rd)
Rule 6: Do not post fellow hexbears.
Rule 7: Do not individually target other instances' admins or moderators.
Rule 8: The subject of a post cannot be low hanging fruit, that is comments/posts made by a private person that have low amount of upvotes/likes/views. Comments/Posts made on other instances that are accessible from hexbear are an exception to this. Posts that do not meet this requirement can be posted to !shitreactionariessay@lemmygrad.ml
Rule 9: if you post ironic rage bait im going to make a personal visit to your house to make sure you never make this mistake again
we're all tankies down here