Ask Lemmy

When I was in school (long ago), I always kept to myself, never bothered anyone, but people still picked on me sometimes. Once I was sitting in class and another kid put me in a headlock, for no particular reason. He probably expected me to do nothing. I didn't want to hurt him or start a commotion, but I punched right at his nose, and pulled my punch right before making contact. Well, this must have startled him a great deal, because he jumped back while letting out a loud fart. It reeked. The teacher came into the classroom and she had to clear everyone out because it smelled so bad. But anyways, I don't think he ever messed with me again.

So basically, see if you can make them fart in front of everyone.

I had a bully that kept walking past my desk and kicking my leg for no good reason when I was 12. I tried to announce loudly to the substitute teacher that day to get him to stop. I know for a fact that the teacher and all the students heard me quite clearly. But the substitute teacher didn't even acknowledge me, nor tried to do anything to stop him.

So, I tried to stand up to the bully myself. As he walked past yet again and kicked my leg again, I swung around behind me as he was passing just behind me. Unfortunately my glasses distorted my view as I tried swinging while looking past the edge of my glasses and I missed.

The dude turned back and punched me in the right eye, breaking my glasses and busting my face. I came close to losing my right eye. I left the class along with him to go to the principal's office, crying and keeping my right eye closed. I was scared that my right eye might have been ruptured. Luckily not though, but it was mighty close.

Anyways, in the long run, the other student was expelled, his parents had to buy me new glasses, and apparently they fired that substitute teacher for not doing a damn thing to prevent the situation when I first announced it.

Long story short, you can't always expect an adult to do the right thing, sometimes shit just happens. If I had it my way, I would have avoided any fight to begin with, but since I was being ignored, I tried to resort to self defense. Didn't work out like I expected, but the dude got what he deserved.

Fuck bullies!

What are they doing to stand up to the bullies? They only understand definitive language or actions. If your child is just saying "no, you can't do that," nothing will happen. In the past, "standing up to a bully" generally meant breaking their nose.

EDIT: oh, this is about you as an adult, not your children. Good luck, adult bullies have that behavior ingrained in them from decades of training. Avoid them or get them in legal/job trouble, those are your only realistic options.

Could you be more specific about your situation?

To me, “stand up to bullies” really means “don’t let yourself be a victim”, and that doesn’t sound like bad advice.

I think I could help with this since I lived with an adult bully for about 1.5 which was a horrible experience, but I took it as a major learning lesson and promised myself that I would be a support and advocate for victims. So, here's what I learned.

Bullies are predators that look for what they think would be the easiest victim. They need to bully because they are extremely insecure, yet the bullying makes them feels superior in their heads. So, know that their weakness is insecurity, and they see a weakness in you. Using this info, you can work on their weakness to show you're not an easy target by protecting yours, and they won't get the sense of superiority out of bullying you.

Tips:

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Do not play their game.

• They are the experts on this. Once you recognize someone is trying to bully you, know that they have started to work on you for a while now. Thus, if a bully throws you the ball, don't throw it back. Put it down. If they start a conversation with you that you don't want to have, say, "That's interesting, but I'm focused on something else right now."

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Have very solid boundaries.

• Know what they are, verbally state them when appropriate, and stick to them 100%. They will search for where they can violate this, then capitalize on it, so do not let one thing slide. You have every right to leave if you feel that someone is being antagonistic or offensive. You can even leave if you feel uncomfortable and want to recollect. If anyone forces you to stay, that's a major red flag.

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Be grounded in your truth.

• Bullies will try to define reality for you. For example, "It's not that they are abusive assholes because they're so insecure; it's that you are weak and deserve it or they're just playing." Nope. That's their delusion. Stay planted to your reality. It may help to write it down as a reminder for yourself.

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Greyrock. Greyrock. Greyrock.

• That means to have no noticeable emotional reactions to any of their bullying. They feed off of reaction, whether it is good or bad. Do not show that they are affecting you in any sense. This makes them feel insecure, so their strategy of bullying you isn't working.

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I-statements.

• You can say whatever you want as long as you don't mention anyone else by name or pronoun. So rather than saying, "You are insulting me." Say, "I feel uncomfortable right now." That is 100% acceptable and no one can argue how you feel since it's generally considered a jerk move. If anyone does argue your feelings, they're gaslighting you because they're telling you to trust their reality over yours.

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As adults, they are playing a social game.

• They are trying to paint you as the bad guy, paint themselves as either strong or the victim (depends on the immediate setting, but think of how Trump is always either strong or a victim), isolate you, then creating alliances with others to start bullying you, whether the others know it or not. For me, this is the hardest of the areas to work on, but basically I remember that they are focused on the immediate moment. You need to play the long game. Stay stable and don't start with gossip, trash talking, or whatever. You need to demonstrate through your behaviors that you are not what the bully is telling everyone else you are. Also, do not believe anything the bully tells you about others. That is a manipulation strategy. For example, they may tell you that, "Person A is such a bully to Person B." This will trigger your sensitivity, get you to isolate from Person A, and start trusting the bully a little more since they are apparently against bullying. It's all a game they play. As long as you understand that they are delusional, you can accept to not trust a thing they say, even is many of their statements are littered with half-truths. Remember, everything they say has a manipulative purpose. Eventually, the bully will either get sick of trying to bully you and it not be effective, or they may actually lash out enough for you to take more concrete steps, such as legal, contacting HR, or whatever.

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Do not speak poorly of anyone else.

• They will use this to trash your reputation with them, especially if it is something that other person is vulnerable about. They can prompt it by going, "I don't mean to be mean, but I'm kind of concerned with Person A's health...they just look a bit too overweight." You, trying to relate, respond, "Yeah, they do seem a bit overweight, and they're not helping themselves eating Chic-Fil-A for lunch. Maybe they don't know how to eat healthier." Later on, they go to Person A, "Hey, I want you to know that I am just trying to be a caring person and don't like any drama, but I thought it was rude what someone told me about you...Lettruhut was talking crap about how you shouldn't be eating Chic-Fil-A because of your size." Person A then gets justifiably offended and can even confirm the half-truth by coming up to you and asking, "Hey, do like Chic-Fil-A?" You unconsciously remembering the previous conversation respond, "No, it's too much for me." That's it. You just confirmed what the bully implied.

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Do not share anything personal with the bully.

• If the bully comes up to you and says, "You know, I feel bad about taking home pens from work sometimes. It feels like I'm stealing." Do not try to console them by being vulnerable, such as, "I don't think that's a big deal. One time I really needed just a few staples, so I took some home from the office because I didn't need a whole box." In this example, you just admitted to the bully that you steal. The bully will immediately start spreading that info unto others. They may tell a manager, "I'm a bit concerned that Lettruhout is stealing because I saw them taking home office supplies. I'll show you what I mean at the next meeting by pretending that I'm doing it, you play along, and we can see how they react." Next meeting comes along, "Hey everyone, I want to know what you guys think...I'm a bit embarrassed about this, but I've been taking home pens from the office, and I wanted to know if you think that's a big deal?" The manager says, "I mean, something so insignificant, that's fine. If it were a computer, then of course that's a problem though. What do you think Lettruhut?" You responded, "Oh yeah. One time I took home a few staples. I was really nervous about it, but I'm glad you guys are sensible. I was actually worried that you guys would see it as stealing." Boom! You just admitted that you stole, while the bully has an alibi for what they told you they stole. When you get punished for it and try to accuse the bully of it, you now look like a liar as well, and no one will believe whatever you say about the bully from there on out. Anyway, as long as you don't share anything personal with them, they will see that you're not an easy target and prey around for someone else.

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If you see them bully someone else, become a source of support for them.

• Don't tell them what you saw, but ask them to tell you how they experienced it and be a supportive sense of validation grounded in reality. This shows them that you are healthy and also that their recollection and interpretation of events are valid.

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Know that as long as you are not dealing with a lethally dangerous psychopath, you have already won.

• You have won because they are playing an antagonistic game based on fantasy. You are living a collaborative life based on reality. Since you are aiming to be collaborative, you limit the amount of antagonism you create. In fact, it is others that create the antagonism which you may fall victim to. However, their entire lives are antagonistic, so they are more likely to mess up and have a longgggg history of terrible relationships and records. Being based on reality, you've already won because you share the same world with everyone else while they have to not only manage that information, but also have to develop and coercively disseminate their delusional interpretation of it. You only have to remember facts. They have to remember facts, delusions, lies, and the specific manipulation strategies they use on each individual involved. That means that you have much more mental resources available to focus on the problem than they do.

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If this is a person threatening your safety, then you need to collect evidence and get authorities involved.

• Not only keep track of your interactions, but find a way to mount evidence. What I did with my bully when I was kicking them out of my life (a dangerous moment because they act more intensely since their about to lose their insecurity drug), I would put my phone on record and in my pocket so that I had evidence to share with people if I needed to. While that particular example wouldn't be admissible in court in my state, I could still share it with police, medical professionals, or lawyers so they know I am being truthful. In retrospect, I could have tricked them into giving me consent by starting the recording in my pocket, then saying, "So if what you're telling me is right, you wouldn't care if I recorded it?" They would have to respond, "No." Then I would go, "So I have your permission to record this?" They would say, "Yes," assuming you're not recording, so then you can say, "Ah, never mind. It's not worth it to go get my camera." Boom! Just got consent and bonus, they now think you believe their BS even more because you didn't follow through to get the camera.

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edits: grammar and a quote

Its not just about getting the outcome you want (the bully leaving you alone). It's about the personal habit of being equal to confrontation. Not being rolled over by fear. You don't need a resolution, you need to be upright and confident in the face of these sniveling weasels. They'll never go away. They're a permanent fixture. Learn to play in that world. That's the point.

Bullies are part of a cycle of abuse. They belittle others so they themselves can feel less pathetic. The strategy my mom taught me is to be untouchable. Don’t give them the satisfaction of getting under your skin. Shrug, chuckle, and genuinely forget about them. They’re insignificant. No need to butt heads. It also an effective strategy for road rage. You can’t lose if you’re not playing the game. You can even make them think they won. Some of these assholes genuinely get furious at unwavering positivity.

Define bully more clearly. What adults do tends to be more indirect than kids.

As kids, bullies are pretty direct, so standing up to them is effective, at a minimum for building your own strength for standing up to things. (In a way, bullying is just the extreme form of how we tease each other growing up, which gives us opportunity to practice dealing with conflict).

Kid bullies expect other kids to just give in. By not doing so, you've changed the "frame" of the interaction.

As adults, dealing with assholes requires this same skill: reframing the situation in a way the aggressor doesn't expect (or maybe comprehend).

Big guys who happen to have good character know they intimidate people just by being there, so have learned to put people at ease though body language and personality. Having worked with and for some of these guys, I've learned a LOT from them about controlling or influencing the frame in a given group or interaction. They know they can simply smack down an aggressor, but would prefer not to, as it doesn't look good and is a hassle for them so is considered a last-attempt option. Which gives them all the mental leeway to just fuck with people who are being stupid.

I've watched these kinds of guys redirect all sorts of craziness, from aggressive drunks on the street (became their buddy), to coaxing Directors or VP's to do things their way...as a Senior Manager. Watching aggravated people laugh within minutes of engaging with someone like this is astounding.

Befriend a big guy who's like this - what you can learn is invaluable.

What’s an example of someone bullying you, and how you’ve “given them what they’ve given you”?

I mean the second I got physical they all backed off. It was as easy as that for a chill highschool life lol. The punishment was well worth it. Bullies are usually complete pussies anyway.

This is a weird one. Agree with them and basically be really pathetic. It really messes with people like this and narcissists.

The moment you fight back, or try to establish boundaries with people like this, they perceive you as challenging them. Since these people are ultimately insecure they will put you down really hard, to feel secure about themselves.

HealthygamerGG has a video on establishing boundaries and how it rarely works, and he discusses how you should approach it instead.

https://youtu.be/gqwjBEf3znc?si=Yi28OpyiBzS5zbQA

Why give them back anything? Just tell them to fuck off.

I'm not a parent, a teacher, or a therapist. However, I was bullied from kindergarten through tenth grade. So, here's my two cents based on my own experience having not put it into practice.

The bully is a bully for a reason just as the bullied is bullied for a reason. You can not control the environment that created a bully but you can attempt to help your bullied child. If I were a parent, I would take a good hard look at my child and ask their teachers why they may be bullied. As a parent, I would help my kid overcome those traits if possible. In some cases, there may not be an immediate solution that you can provide. Your child, as it was the case for me, may be in an environment that's detrimental to their development.

It's not so much about "standing up to the bully" and telling your kid to do that is, in my opinion, counter productive. Lack of confidence is one reason a child may be bullied and gaining confidence is how to thwart ongoing threats. Their confidence will be what stands up to the bully on its own.

Confidences is gained through social interactions. Support your child by exposing them to more activities that make them uncomfortable. I quit soccer and karate lessons too quickly and my mom didn't push me to keep doing them or really support anything I was ever interested in. This taught me it was easier to hide from awkwardness and give up on things I had a passing interest in if I wasn't good enough at it from the start. I still struggle with this in my 40s. I may not be bullied in school anymore but life itself is always there to judge me and tell me how weak I am.

It was the summer between tenth and eleventh grade when I started to hang out with more people (like, two) around the neighborhood. We would skateboard, ride bikes, play street hockey, go out to eat pizza, etc. With a small group of people who had a little more influence / confidence in school, I guess my confidence grew enough that people to be more friendly towards me.

I probably have a poor impression of how kids are growing up today. I assume most kids are in their homes playing video games and watching TikTok. As much confidence as someone may gain at home by being really good at something they do online, this doesn't transfer to the real world or the shared world young people experience.

In the halls of my middle school, I felt like a ghost, invisible to everyone except the bullies who made my life a living hell. Every day, they taunted me, mocked my appearance, and tripped me in the hallway.

I tried to ignore them, but the constant harassment wore me down. One day, pushed to my limit, I finally snapped. When the ringleader, Jake, shoved me into a locker, I swung back, landing a punch square on Jake's nose.

The satisfaction of retaliation was fleeting as the principal's office became my next destination. Despite explaining my side, I was met with a stern lecture on violence and the consequences of my actions.

But in that moment of defiance, something shifted within me. I realized that standing up for myself didn't have to involve fists. It meant finding the courage to speak out, seeking help from trusted adults, and refusing to let the bullies define me.

That night my dad came into my room and savagely beat with a set of jumper cables for getting in trouble.

Empathize with bullies.

Ask if everything is ok at home, and let them know if they ever need to talk about things you're there.

"You seem really angry at things. Are things ok?"

"I'm sorry life isn't going the best for you right now, but things will get better."

This is the ultimate mind fuck.

At first it won't seem like it's working as they need to save face, but within around two to three encounters they'll drop you from their target list because while they won't try to show it, reflecting the truth of what's really going on cuts deep.

I remember years after HS ending up friends with one of my old bullies who was much more torn up about the whole thing than I ever was, and meeting his absolute psychopath of an older brother and thinking "well this makes sense." His dad was dying of cancer around the time, he was being held back a grade, and his older brother was for sure torturing him at home.

I know that had I had the awareness I do now back then the poor kid would have folded like a house of cards at the slightest indication I actually saw through his charade.

The problem was I was a fairly clueless emotional moron at the time and assumed he really did have a beef with me and not that what was going on was that he had a massive issue with himself that was being displaced. This was the same period of time I had a girl who was driving me home park at the area kids went to do drugs and hook up, and I proceeded to cluelessly chat for 30 minutes before she was like "whelp, I guess I'll drive you home." Years later when that one clicked too.

Make your bullies feel important. Make them think you're their friend. Manipulate them until they stop bullying you.

If you can win in a fight you didn't start, whether that's verbal or physical win it, otherwise walk away without a bit of acknowledgement.

Put a stinkbomb in their backpack during class and let it stink so they get bullied in return.

Beating a bully's ass can definitely work (sometimes), and it can work on verbally abusive bullies as well but of course violence isn't very accepable and it comes with serious risks beyond just getting in trouble.

Verbally destroying a bully is doable at least for some bullies, but you might not be able or willing to go at them verbally in a way that will work, so it might be better to just pretend like you don't understand, smile, and say something like, "Cool, thanks!"

They'll probably get upset, but just keep doing it or start fucking with them in other silly ways until they get frustrated and leave: Make them look like an asshole in front of everyone, because, you know, they're being an asshole.

Alternately, intimidate the fuck out of them either yourself or through a friend: This is risky but I can work. If you aren't physically intimidating, acting crazy can still work pretty well but I'd advise this as a last resort. Intimidation can easily spark a fight if misused and trust me when I say you don't want to get into a real fight: They can have life altering results if things get out of hand.

Orrrr

Whip out your phone and record them every time they start harassing you. If you live in a single party consent state, you can record it surreptitiously. Once you have a good amount of shitty behavior documented, go back to the school and insist they do something. If not, consider pressing charges for harassment - a restraining order would certainly be an effective deterrent. Might be worth considering a lawsuit against the school if the bullying was bad enough and you documented that they did nothing to stop it.

Or

Act as though they do not exist at all: They want attention, deny them this.

The kind of person you're dealing with, the kind of person you are, and the overall circumstances should guide your approach, not every approach will work on every person and in every circumstance.

Good luck, and remember: This shit is temporary, whatever you decide to do, even if it's nothing, try not to let them get into your head. Ten years from now, they won't matter at all to you.

Laughing and mocking a bully takes the wind out of their sails.

How exactly are you being bullied; as an adult?

What clown world do we live in where standing up for yourself is a bad advice?

Easier said than done but don't be on your own. Stick in groups of 2 or more friends. I got bullied in middle school because I really didn't have many friends in my classes. In high school I joined ROTC, which typically means every squad member is your friend, and I never got bullied because they all had my back and I had theirs. Well, I might've been "bullied" a bit by superior officers but that's kind of built in to the program.

See I had to put up with a lot of bullying as a kid, and learned a few things along the way, and of course subsequently. If I had a kid, which I don't and don't want, my first approach would be to dig up some dirt on the kids parents to arm my kid with some ammunition for clapback.

If that didn't work I just go down to the school personally and terrify the principal or whatever. Not with threats of physical violence or anything; that's overkill and a good way to get your ass landed in jail. No instead you go down there in a cold rage, a loud voice if necessary, and some very menacing threats to go to both the press and your lawyer.

I'm also a firm believer because of said bullying in teaching said kid self-defense. Actual self-defense not just karate classes. Because while I don't want my kid engaging in violence, I absolutely want him to defend himself if somebody throws a punch at him. Or her; I'm an equal opportunity asshole.

Report bullies to the police for domestic extremism.

If you can't beat them, join them.