Family of Utah man shot dead by FBI after threats to Biden say he was ‘frustrated’ : news

[–] sparseMatrix@kbin.social 66 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

There are a lot of people who would like you to think that disinformation is harmless; that if you buy into bullshit that it's your own fault; and that the 'people that matter' know the truth.

This man bought into the fire hose of shit that is continuously, endlessly spewing a mixture of exaggerations, half truths and outright lies. He took it all very seriously, and he paid with his life.

Ask yourself, do you think this man was one of the 'people who matter' to his family? It sounds like some of them agree with, and listened to him and the fire hose.

This is a fucking tragedy. This man is a casualty of the fight for democracy, and it is a damn fight when people are getting shot for it. Not because he bought into some bullshit; but because he was fed a line of shit by people he trusted. His political party.

This has got to stop, and I think that it surely will.

Let's hope it doesn't have to be at the expense of another man's life.

Another husband, father, grandfather, uncle or brother. Or worse, whole families.

[–] kelvin0mql@mastodon.hams.social 37 points 1 year ago (3 children)

@sparseMatrix
Choosing whom to trust (& listen to) is a moral choice, much more so than a political or philosophical choice.

Fam saying “he would never” are lying or naïve. He pointed a gun @ FBI agents. He would never?! Oh yes he fucking would, because he fucking did.

Rule # 1: Never point a weapon @ anything you don’t intend to destroy.

Repeated regularly by 2A folks.

He chose amoral violence, tragically. A greater tragedy will be if his fam&friends consider him a martyr.

[–] sparseMatrix@kbin.social 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

@kelvin0mql

I do not question any of that. My point is, the republican party has been stirring this pot a long time, and as long as the money keeps pouring, they cant be arsed, as the brits say.

It's got to be stopped at the source. We're already at the point that guys are like this everywhere. One stands in the foyer of the Kroger just about every afternoon 3 blocks from my house.

Wearing a ball cap with a thin blue line flag, armed to the teeth, in a flag-wrapped t-shirt, glaring at anyone who walks by with a smile their face.

His body language, the sidearm he's wearing, his clothes - it all screams that if you're aren't mad as hell and not going to take it anymore, you must be a fuckin' democrat.

That is a feature of the republican party. If it isn't addressed soon, some sort of war will be the only way it gets addressed.

[–] kelvin0mql@mastodon.hams.social 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

@sparseMatrix
Bingo. That guy is a perfect example of the one big favor that #McTurtle & #IQ45 have done this nation. They made many of these amoral shits bold enough to stand up & be recognized.

Now we know who many of them are. Never trust them. Oppose them @ every opportunity. Tax their churches & their billionaire leaders.

There’s a great Jon Stewart quote that won’t fit here, because 500bytes, so it will be in my next reply…

[–] kelvin0mql@mastodon.hams.social 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

@sparseMatrix
“You’ve heard it said ‘The arc of the moral universe is long and bends toward justice.’ But it doesn’t bend towards justice by gravity, you have to bend it. And there’s a bunch of people trying to bend it back.”

- - Jon Stewart

[–] kelvin0mql@mastodon.hams.social 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

@sparseMatrix
This dude in the news who was righteously, justifiably dropped by FBI agents spent a lifetime trying to convince his family, friends, et al, that his hatred & racism was correct. The GOP is made from the ground up by people who are this vile, or are totally OK with their associates being this vile.

I shed not one goddamned tear. I have zero fucks to give.

#GOPisNAZI
#WWJD? Well he wouldn’t be a Nazi, I’d bet my life on that.

[–] sparseMatrix@kbin.social 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

@kelvin0mql

Lets be clear - I am not making any kind of defense of this guy; I am eviscerating the GOP for creating and sustaining an environment that keeps that guy squarely where they want him, and operate that firehose of falsehood that suck new people into the rotten fold on an ongoing basis.

[–] kelvin0mql@mastodon.hams.social 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

@sparseMatrix
Understood & agreed.

I just don’t consider his death a tragedy in quite the same way I’m inferring you do. I feel bad for the FBI agents if they suffer any emotional discomfort for doing the right, necessary thing.

I don’t suggest we euthanize all GOPers. But if they volunteer like this ass did, then fine. Natural Selection do your thing.

#MaybePartlyKidding

[–] sparseMatrix@kbin.social 4 points 1 year ago

@kelvin0mql

As my dad used to say, "You can't live with a grizzly bear. One of you will have to go."

[–] HappyMeatbag@beehaw.org 3 points 1 year ago

Now we know who many of them are. Never trust them.

This is how I feel about people wearing swastikas and such. It’s a handy “warning label”. It’s like a blinking sign over their head that says DO NOT ENGAGE, BUT KEEP AN EYE ON ME.

[–] be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

He pointed a gun @ FBI agents.

I support the action taken by the FBI here, and I certainly support their use of deadly force on someone who pointed a gun at them. But having lived through the past several years, I'd really like to see a bodycam video which shows this.

Not interested in seeing the man get shot, just want to see a video of him pointing a gun at them. I also acknowledge that I think the FBI seems to have a better record of not lying about their use of force than random police do.

But, I'm still going with (believably) alleged to have pointed a gun at them for now.

[–] FaceDeer@kbin.social 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Indeed, it's quite possible that both the guy and the police that shot him were in the wrong. We should never assume that because one group is bad the other group opposing them is good.

[–] kelvin0mql@mastodon.hams.social 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

@sparseMatrix @FaceDeer @be_excellent_to_each_other
Also fair.

#ACAB …even if sometimes they do the right thing.

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while.

[–] LevZadov@kolektiva.social 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

@kelvin0mql @sparseMatrix @FaceDeer @be_excellent_to_each_other

#ACAB #FTP
Just because one or two cops do the right thing in no way justifies the existence of a standing police force.
https://controlc.com/0066fe07

[–] sparseMatrix@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

@LevZadov

@kelvin0mql @be_excellent_to_each_other @FaceDeer

Not even going there right now. It is an adjacent issue.

[–] LevZadov@kolektiva.social 1 points 1 year ago

@kelvin0mql @sparseMatrix @FaceDeer @be_excellent_to_each_other

It's always nice, though, when one of them turns whistleblower.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/61272273-the-riders-come-out-at-night

[–] kelvin0mql@mastodon.hams.social 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

@sparseMatrix @be_excellent_to_each_other
I think that’s fair.

I skimmed thru the linked article, and viewed the 2 photos of the decedent.

Given no further evidence, do I think it is most likely true that he pointed a gun at FBI agents who loudly and repeatedly identified themselves? Yes, I do.

Good enough to hold up in criminal court? No.

Good enough for me, an internet rando-crank to say “Tough shit.”? Yup.

I’ve been proven incorrect before. I’m OK with that.

[–] be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

Given no further evidence, do I think it is most likely true that he pointed a gun at FBI agents who loudly and repeatedly identified themselves? Yes, I do.
Good enough to hold up in criminal court? No.
Good enough for me, an internet rando-crank to say “Tough shit.”? Yup.
I’ve been proven incorrect before. I’m OK with that.

Yep also fair enough. Only being pedantic so as to give the same benefit of doubt I would for someone else, but I generally agree with your assessment.

[–] kelvin0mql@mastodon.hams.social 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

@sparseMatrix
Other than that bit, I agree with you.

Not that I’m a believer anymore, but the disinformation bit reminds me of the millstone mentioned in Mark 9:42

[–] sparseMatrix@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

@kelvin0mql

It's possible to draw parallels like that ~~everywhere~~ all over the bible; and it's not because of 'omg prophesy'

[–] Bizarroland@kbin.social 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

One thing I think is going on is that a lot of people in the western world have been raised to expect Armageddon sometime during their lifetime, and because they feel like they are on the right side they are attempting to accelerate that Armageddon because they think that happiness and Paradise are just on the other side of it.

It's like being told as soon as you finish this chore you're going to get a tasty treat. If you really want the treat you're going to work harder and faster to get the chore done sooner, right?

There's only one line in the Bible and I don't remember where it is that cautions people against attempting to accelerate the end of times because they don't really know what it's actually going to be like and they're only leading themselves to their own destruction but just like everything else in the Bible, because every single word is supposed to be important, that warning has just slipped through the cultural cracks.

[–] sparseMatrix@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

@Bizarroland

@kelvin0mql

You are saying something I've been saying for years. In fact, it was my parent's generation who I saw anticipating armaggeddon, and they expected it in the year 2000. It's what the lyrics of 'Party Like It's 1999' are all about.

I get the idea that when it didn't happen that way, it surprised a lot of them, and eventually pissed off a bunch of them. They felt like they'd been cheated out of the second coming, or something.

While my parents are passed now, and didn't really share the perspective anyway, I think there are still a bunch of these grizzled old assholes around, ready to see it all burn before they croak, just so they can be around when it happened.

[–] Bizarroland@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

It's in the realm of "Self-Fulfilling Prophecy" at this point. If God won't do it, we'll just make our own Armageddon with internet greed and hypocrisy.

[–] btaf45@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

In fact, it was my parent's generation who I saw anticipating armaggeddon, and they expected it in the year 2000. It's what the lyrics of 'Party Like It's 1999' are all about.

We didn't expect shit. It's just a song dude.

[–] kelvin0mql@mastodon.hams.social 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

@sparseMatrix
I was @ Wendy’s abt 12y ago. Mostly empty. Dude 10’ away blustering to his daughter about those “Slow… Children At Play” signs/markers people put at the end of their driveway. “They’re illegal! They can’t put up signs the city didn’t put up. I’m gonna run ‘em over!”

His back was to me, so his daughter could see me flip him off. She briefly smirked, but he didn’t see it. I did her a great service that day.

[–] invno1@lemmy.one 1 points 1 year ago

/r/thathappened

[–] HappyMeatbag@beehaw.org 4 points 1 year ago

This is much more mature, empathetic, and thoughtful than my initial response. Thank you.

[–] nuke@yah.lol 13 points 1 year ago (2 children)

“Though his statements were intemperate at times, he has never, and would never, commit any act of violence against another human being over a political or philosophical disagreement,” the statement read.

Cognitive dissonance. He literally committed an act of violence against another human by shooting at FBI agents. Their whole damn family is fucking stupid and I'm glad the piece of shit is dead.

[–] sparseMatrix@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

@nuke

This is exactly how they want you to feel, because it will sensitize you to the violence, you eventually move beyond the mere vocal, and they'll have the war the want, because you and everyone like you will do the same thing. You're far from alone in this thinking, so they are winning on fronts that we dont acknowledge, at least not 'in the clear'.

[–] gk99@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I know the outcome when the oppressive far right starts acting up, we have history books. They'll start the war, they always do. Our mindset isn't a problem, theirs is.

[–] sparseMatrix@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago

@gk99

@nuke

"They always do" - I'm not talking skirmishes here.

I also do not disagree about the mindset. But that mindset has been well and contuously fed and watered; cultivated

[–] HappyMeatbag@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago

I love their word choice. I think posts which are active threats that the FBI has to deal with are a bit more than “intemperate”, but okay.

Here’s your pacifier, and here’s your Fox News. Now run along and stop making statements to the media.

[–] anon6789@beehaw.org 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I can't imagine being 75 and deciding that the best use of my final years is to try to assassinate a moderate president. Even if you do feel the country is going to hell, you've got a decade left tops.

He let himself give into selfishness and anger instead of spending time with all that family, sitting on a patio chair with his dog and an icy Arnold Palmer waving to neighbors, and enjoying old man hobbies. What a frickin tragedy...

I want to know about serious issues with this country, but screw extremist media big time. News isn't entertainment. It needs to be real or this crap happens.

[–] FaceDeer@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

To play devil's advocate, I could imagine being 75 and deciding that "I'm going to be gone soon anyway, might as well use my final years to do something big."

The rest of your comment I completely agree with, though.

[–] anon6789@beehaw.org 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I hear you, but Joe is kinda boring as a president. What has he done even remotely worth hurting him for? If we were hypothetically saying "oh I'm dying, I'm going to get Reagan and GB for what they guy away with in the Iran Contra," maaaaybe, but the only guy I can think of that has it coming any less than Joe is Carter.

[–] sparseMatrix@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

@anon6789

@FaceDeer

My dude, your logic. Yet somehow, you arrive in the right place.

[–] sparseMatrix@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

@anon6789

Me neither guy, and I find it tragic that somehow these fucks that cultivate these attitudes are even allowed in government when really they should be in the jail.

[–] ArugulaZ@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago

So the family is just as bad as he was, got it.

[–] theodewere@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago

these right wing morons have had their brains eroded so goddamned far by right wing radio and TV, they are hopeless.. they are literally going to Hell, like their dead moron cousin..

[–] GizmoLion@kbin.social 4 points 1 year ago

How the hell did this headline get past the editor??
This sounds like the FBI shot the man's family after he threatened Biden, saying he's frustrated.
It's hard to put much stock in their interpretation of the facts when their attention to detail never graced the headline even for a minute...

[–] wryan@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago

After hearing stuff like this it always makes me reaffirm that Rush Limbaugh was one of the most dangerous, deplorable people to have the unfortunate opportunity to have a platform. Truly one of the most pernicious people to ever speak into a microphone. I don't know if this is a bit of a non-sequitur, but I feel like this guy would've been a staunch listener.

[–] Silverseren@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago

What freedom and rights have been affected, exactly? Is this just "immigrants and LGBT people exist" nonsense, where it's claimed that not doing negative things to such groups is somehow an attack on white straight men?

[–] HubertManne@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

Remember when old men where cynical and did not believe everything they were told? Pepridge farm remembers!

[–] sparseMatrix@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

It's added by the software, its how everyone gets the replies

[–] wave_walnut@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

How can the desire to make the world justify lead to wanting to shoot people with a gun? I think there is something wrong with some system that connects between that thought and action.

[–] CookieJarObserver@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Why is using commas so hard...

[–] sparseMatrix@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

@CookieJarObserver

It doesn't seem like it would be, does it...