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On one hand (heh) there's apparently evidence to suggest that handwriting activates parts of the brain which aren't typically activated by just typing something out. I can see how that would be the case and why it could sometimes be useful.

On the other, the idea of carrying a little notebook around to jot things down when I have a phone in my pocket, or using a fountain pen for longform text (trust me it would actually help you avoid hand cramps, aside from being less wasteful) all comes across as... intentionally inefficient? I struggle to see intentional inefficiency as anything but pretension. Like it's all just fetishizing living a more analogue life.

It actually makes the techbro in me think there's something to companies like Supernote and Boox and ReMarkable making e-ink tables that exist mainly so that what you do choose to write by hand can be digitized, stored and made searchable.

I suppose that's actually exactly why people tend to journal in physical notebooks? Because what you put down in there will just disappear unless you crack open that notebook again.

...Meanwhile I'm pretty sure a lot of people feel that writing things by hand gets their creative juices flowing. That's sort of interesting to me, because personally, by the time I'm finished writing a single sentence whatever I was thinking about is halfway gone. If I don't get it down real quick my thoughts will drift to something else entirely, so when I had to handwrite essays in primary school I'd get completely stuck in a way I never do just typing things.

TL;DR someone who's bad at empathy talks about handwriting as if everyone else experiences the world exactly the same way, please knock him off of his stupid pedestal

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[–] DJDarren@beehaw.org 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don’t see writing by hand as “intentionally inefficient”, I see it as an extremely easy way to reconnect with physical creation of some description.

We’ve all been trained to believe that we have to be as efficient as possible in order to maximise our profitability. But why? Why not take a few moments to do things a slower, more thoughtful way?

I like writing by hand - where appropriate. It feels nice to put ideas on paper. And as a bonus, those ideas don’t then get hoovered up whichever company made whichever app you’re writing into.

[–] Coliseum7428@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago

I agree with doing things thoughtfully. My handwriting is better when I slow down, and it looks good! I can take a moment to be proud of how it looks!

[–] wildeaboutoskar@beehaw.org 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Writing by hand is definitely the main way I learn. The act of writing it embeds it in my memory moreso than looking at a screen.

I wonder how much of that is down to how we were taught though and it being more familiar and linked with education and cognition. Someone must have done a study on this somewhere.

[–] nfld0001@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago

I wonder how much of that is down to how we were taught though and it being more familiar and linked with education and cognition.

I'd be curious to learn more about that as well. I never felt a strong difference in embedding to memory between writing or typing something, but my dad also started putting me in front of computers as early as when I was, like, 4? I by no means can't speak on it academically, but anecdotally speaking, I'd suspect that getting in front of a mouse and keyboard relatively early on might've played a part in that?

I'd like to see some professional research into it, but I'm also interested in more anecdotes. Do you think you got into computers around the same time as your peers? Earlier or later? I'd also like to hear from anyone else if they wanna chime in 🤔.

[–] idealium@beehaw.org 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I am quite sure I have ADHD (though not officially diagnosed), with that in mind here's my story.

There's a veritable cornucopia of programs and systems available to utilize when it comes to keeping digital notes, and none of them stick for me. I desperately want them to work, because I loathe writing things by hand due to hand cramps and poor penmanship. The thing I get hung up on a lot is getting comfortable in a certain software-based note-taking ecosystem and then running straight into a wall when I want it to do one particular thing I've identified as being useful, or perhaps the software just becomes unreliable for one reason or another. It's highly demotivating to me when I realize I've spent hours using something only for it to end up not working for me the way I wanted it to. Also, when I write digital notes, I have a very bad habit of editing, as if someone other than myself were to read my notes later (irrational, I know), so the process takes much longer than if I were to put the pen to paper.

The thing about pen and paper is, it just works. I might run out of paper or ink, but assuming I have access to more, I can write whatever and however I want. Sure, I don't get automation or full-text search "out of the box", but I can devise my own systems (short-hand, indexing, etc.) or borrow someone else's (Bullet Journal), even use external tools (scan document | OCR) to meet my needs when the time comes.

Right now I'm in the middle of building a habit of keeping a small journal on my person where I keep very simple remarks about my day and track personal tasks and events. I'm explicitly only using systems that I find useful and nearly effortless, but as I improve the habit I will try adding more complexity. I feel that if I can develop a solid core of analog writing, then it's likely I can begin to introduce more regular digital note-taking to augment this core practice.

I don't believe there is one method that works (or is even beneficial) for everyone, rather I think it's more important for individuals to find a method (or hybrid) that works for them, and stick to it.

[–] shanghaibebop@beehaw.org 4 points 1 year ago

I struggle with it, mostly because I get frustrated how much faster I can type compared to handwriting things. I haven't hand written things since I left school.

[–] brie@beehaw.org 4 points 1 year ago

For me, I prefer typing for just plain text, however things involving diagrams and equations can be easier to write out, rather than futzing around scrolling and adjusting the layout.

Also, as a side note, I think 0.3 mechanical pencils are underrated for writing.

[–] Ni@kbin.social 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Honestly I find that making physical hand written notes better cements the ideas in my head. It may be because I'm older so I started with only pen and paper which means that's how I best think, but for me writing and typing are two different tools and I tend to use both.

[–] dipbeneaththelasers@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

My wife is that way. If she's making lists or planning a project or anything else that she really wants to remember she'll hand write it. For flow, like writing a short story, she'll type.

I meanwhile lack the handwriting gene entirely. It's too slow for me and I lose my thought before I've had the chance to put it to paper.

[–] Ni@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

Everyone is different! I like to think of them as different tools, so whatever works best for the job at hand.

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[–] Thalestr@beehaw.org 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It can certainly help with retention and processing of information because you're using both your mind and body to do it, but I have always struggled with it. I wasn't able to legibly write my own name until my early 20's and any small amount of writing badly hurt my hand. The struggle and discomfort takes away from any benefit and enjoyment it might have given me.

[–] Mummelpuffin@beehaw.org 5 points 1 year ago

Same. I write as if I had Parkinson's. I guess part of my typing this out is me trying to process how I keep flip-flopping between "people keep telling me this is useful" and "no, getting to the point where it would be useful for me would take way too much effort".

[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I use physical hand writing for two things,

  1. When I get stressed and have to remember too many things (like I lose sleep because I can't stop thinking about it) I will carry a tiny journal in my pocket and write stuff in it I need to remember and cross it out when it is done. The less strict the rules of it the better. It is far from "bullet journaling".
  2. If I need to take names while doing something else. Physical paper and pencil is better for whatever reason. Be it a video game, DND, anything. It's just easier to start and stop quick with a pencil on paper than it is on something physical.
[–] Mummelpuffin@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If I need to take names while doing something else. Physical paper and pencil is better for whatever reason. Be it a video game, DND, anything. It’s just easier to start and stop quick with a pencil on paper than it is on something physical.

Ooh this is a REALLY good idea actually. I'm absolutely horrible at remembering names.

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[–] chillybones@beehaw.org 3 points 1 year ago

I type for a living (developer) and I find that I can type WAY faster than I can write. So that is how I prefer to communicate with people and interact with most things during my day. However, when I am on a meeting or a call, I just cannot multitask well enough to capture key details on a computer. I have no idea what my disconnect with that is, but I've given up on trying to type notes and memos while I'm on a call and invested in a fountain pen and a good pad of paper. I will mention that I do really enjoy the feel of a really good pen on paper and maybe that type of feedback is what lets my brain take handwritten notes better.

[–] Hatchet@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago

I don't journal or really even take notes by hand anymore. The notebook I have in my bag is mostly for more abstract sketches, mockups, or examples.

However, I make a frequent practice of handwriting postcards to my friends and family, so I keep my handwriting well-maintained for that.

[–] AttackBunny@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago

My hands and wrists hurt pretty much all the time, so typing is WAY better. Plus, you can't read my handwriting at all, so better for everyone.

[–] VoxAdActa@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago

I hate writing by hand, even though I went all the way through high school doing it (only things like final essays were typed, and even then you had to do it at home). It always hurt to do it the way I was supposed to, my handwriting never improved after like 1st grade (until I taught myself to write left-handed in my early 20's; that's much neater), and I have a horrible sensory issue involving the feel of a dull pencil dragging across paper. It makes me want to jump out a goddamned window.

Even so, writing things by hand helps me remember stuff better. Once I got to college and I was allowed to use whatever writing implement I wanted to take notes with (sparkly gel pens in a variety of colors), it wasn't so awful, and it helped my memory so much that I don't think I ever had to look at the notes I took ever again. So if I'm going to a lecture or a conference or something, I'll still bring a notebook and some fancy gel pens.

Otherwise, the only thing I do with hand-writing is quick notes when I'm talking on the phone and need to record an account number or e-mail or whatever, or when I need to create a reminder to go back and fix something I'm already ahead of at work. Post-it notes are so much quicker than taking the phone away from my ear, navigating to OneNote, selecting the notebook, selecting "new page", and then typing it out. If I want to transcribe the information in some way that's not strictly left-aligned, or if I want to draw circles/boxes/arrows, well, One Note says "too bad, suck it up". Plus, I can stick the post-it to my monitor and it's in my line of sight all day; shit I note down in the phone is out-of-sight, out-of-mind.

Yes, I know I can use the desktop version of OneNote, which has more functionality. I do use it when I'm outlining or making adventure notes for the D&D game I run; it's fabulous for that. But it's utter shit for quickly jotting down "call Denise at [number] <--- IMPORTANT DO BEFORE ----> call Electric Company about acct [#] at [number]". That example doesn't even make sense typed out.

[–] Leafeytea@beehaw.org 3 points 1 year ago

I don't see choosing to handwrite inefficient or pretentious. I see it as something familiar and that I enjoy because I have had a journal since my teens.

As a trained professional working with older adults, I also know that keeping up writing can help promote brain health. There has been plenty of research published on this, including that regular practice of reading and writing can help staff off onset of of dementia in older adults, so it's basically brain exercise.

That said, I write grants for work, narratives for our contracts and so forth, so I also appreciate that when under a time crunch I can bang out something fast on my keyboard after I have spent a little time drafting out initial ideas.

At the end of the day, I think a lot of this just depends on your views about writing in general (regardless of the tools you use); some people hate it no matter what they have to do on. Meanwhile, there are old gits like me that you have pry out of bookstores with a crowbar because after my scanning of the SciFi section, I get busy having too much fun snooping through the isles displaying leather journals and pots of fountain pen ink in goofy colours, and packs of stationary with cute designs. 😂

Pen or keyboard, it's all good.

I have 10+ handwritten notebooks with all of my journaling from middle school and high school that I do plan to scan and OCR at some point; in college, I used 750words.com for all of my journaling, and since then I've migrated to TiddlyWiki for several years and Obsidian for several more.

I do still hand-write occasionally, mostly for really emotional or personal things, but I wouldn't want to make it my primary method of writing now that I have the majority of my writing digitized. Being able to search and find that thought from 5 years ago that I want to reference in whatever I'm writing today is great. I also find it helps make connections between recurring topics of interest.

I've started using handwritten physical kanban cards, though, and that physicality is incredibly helpful in visualizing the projects and work I want to do and keeping it at the forefront of my mind.

[–] glasslyrata@mander.xyz 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I enjoy writing by hand, but I do look forward to a good e-ink device (Products like the remarkable have a subscription model and it's closed hardware and software, which is a big negative to me). Waiting to see how projects like PineNote evolve.

For now I just write on which ever notebook is closest to me. The act of writing is more important than actually storing information somewhere outside of my head.

[–] Cinereus@beehaw.org 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I worked in database administration for years and currently work in a database admin adjacent role and the only things I type are on the internet, emails, data entry, and official/final documents and documentation. I much prefer handwriting for basically everything else - especially for note taking, typing is too linear and non-visual for the way I like to lay notes out with many sketched arrows, diagrams, etc. I also perceive my data to be much more ephemeral in a digital format unless I'm going through the trouble of making multiple backups which...why would I when I can just achieve the same thing with a pen and notebook that I just have to be physically careful with and know the material limitations of. I especially don't trust whatever note-taking apps du jour to have long-lasting reliable data retention, I mostly just use my phones note taking app for the occasional on the go grocery list.

To be fair though I'm one of the kinds of IT people whose knowledge of the field makes me less trustful rather than more trustful of anything that's, to me, technologically overengineered; and I also am already on the computer all the time for my job, so much prefer to be off of it as much as possible during my free time.

[–] Spitfire@pawb.social 3 points 1 year ago

I find that I remember things better if I write something down by hand. I’m more likely to forget if I type it out.

However if speed is a necessity, definitely typed even if I need to re-visit it multiple times. Handwriting is just too slow sometimes.

[–] Readalie@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago

Writing things by hand is nice, and one of my favorite hobbies is calligraphy. Plus there’s something really reassuring about holding a small notebook.

But if I’m not intentionally writing in calligraphic style my handwriting looks like my fingers threw up on the page.

[–] shortwavesurfer@monero.town 2 points 1 year ago

The onky thing i ever hand write is my signature. Everything else is typing

[–] FVVS@l.lucitt.com 2 points 1 year ago

I personally do not care what people think or tell me about handwriting. I do not enjoy writing things out by hand, I much prefer typing. So that is what I do. Simple as that.

[–] nottheengineer@feddit.de 2 points 1 year ago

I feel the same, handwriting is just labor to me and gets in the way because it's so slow.

[–] _ed@sopuli.xyz 2 points 1 year ago

I write by hand to get things out of my head, whether useful or negative it tends to stop me mulling over it. I've always liked the idea of getting a fountain pen, but have never actively pursued it.

[–] azureeight@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago

I think apraxia is a bitch. ☹

But seriously, I used to always get journals and be the person to try this, but my hands just cannot write anymore. Terrible handwriting plus I get cramps and can't hold a pen correctly. I wish there was a safe application on android that I could use to write and journal, but the ones I found so far were too sus for me, so mostly I use wordpad on my pc.

[–] wulfinna@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I hand write and type in pretty equal tandem. Writing poetry oftentimes, I feel better about drafting things on scratch paper (or at least brainstorming) before seeing how it appears in type/print. Other times, I might be at my laptop with an idea that comes to mind that's easier to type out in my text editor first. I find my own dynamic very fluid and I imagine it's mostly the same for others. I think it could really depend on the work being done. And I don't think pretty handwriting is always necessary. If you can read it, it should be enough.

For me, I always prefer to type rather than handwrite. While there are studies that say handwriting can help you retain information better, I handwrite at a fraction of a speed I can type, and the sore wrists from doing a lot of handwriting are far more distracting than the extra learning I could get from handwriting. The exception though is anything where I have to write mathematical formulas, where it is almost always faster to handwrite than remember the specific character sequences or keyboard shortcuts, though even then I prefer to write on my iPad, so I can easily reference it on my computer later.

[–] RichByy@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago

I just like it. Writing with a fountain pen is much more HANDS ON than writing something down on a phone or (bad) laptop keyboards. Especially if your pen is higher quality. Although a nice mechanical keyboard can be quite nice (I like tactiles a lot).

The practical thing also is: If you keep your notes well organized, it can actually be much more accessible. I dunno, I have spent my entire life with PCs, but they feel "cluttered" so quickly and require so many revisions of organisation.

Having both is useful though, so I keep physical versions and scan them later to also have them digitally available AND not having to use those evil, evil printers who want me to buy more ink...

[–] elleyena_rose@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago

I like to do both. There are times where I need to type everything, because my typing speed can keep up with my thoughts. I can get all of the thoughts out of my head quickly, and clear my head so I can focus. It's also easier to do in some places, like when I'm at work - typing myself a quick note and then emailing it to my home email (or saving it in drive), is much faster and more likely to make it where I need it to go. I tend to forget physical items at work.

Writing by hand I use for journaling. For slowing down and taking time to do something. For magic - where I want to put intention and energy into the words and sometimes burn the paper after. For when my eyes are so sick of screens that I just need a break, but still need to get those thoughts out. I'd also rather handwrite something then type it on my phone - Eventually I need to get one with a stylus so I can just write on the screen.

It's the same reason I usually draw things by hand, then scan them to digitize. I have a tablet. I use it for digitization. But my art is generally better by hand.

[–] Bluu@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago

I keep a physical journal and often do free writing just to get thoughts and ideas out. I usually write in cursive and can’t even read it myself afterwards. For me, the act of taking the time to physically write things down is really helpful to process. I almost never return to what I’ve previously written down, but it feels great to get it out. Brains can be weird.

[–] corytheboyd@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago

99% digital for me. The 1% is had writing the occasional master password, just in case I forget it.

[–] cthonctic@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago

So, I really hate taking a laptop into meeting rooms so unless I know I'll have to share my screen I (used to) take an A4 sized paper notebook and a pen to jot down notes.

Recently I upgraded to a ReMarkable 2 which, while certainly not inexpensive, has so been worth it for me.

I do type pretty efficiently on one of my mechanical keyboards, but putting my thoughts into handwriting is a different experience entirely and I always want to retain this option especially for personal one-on-ones.

[–] SyperStronkHero@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I find handwriting also lets me better organize my thoughts and allow me to practise and develop my reading and writing skills in the initial stages. Writing makes it easier to organize or make edits as I rewrite everything when I move it to my pc. It just adds less steps to the whole process because I can properly focus on making my first edit and rework everything. It also makes it easier for me to bring around to other people when I see them. I find with a digital copy, most people just press spellcheck and be done with it instead of commenting on how and why I phrase certain sentences and which words might better communicate my ideas. I'm also a bit overwhelmed sometimes when I go through my digital documents that I end up just chipping away at the editing rather than be able to focus on it.

On the other, the idea of carrying a little notebook around to jot things down when I have a phone in my pocket, or using a fountain pen for longform text (trust me it would actually help you avoid hand cramps, aside from being less wasteful) all comes across as... intentionally inefficient? I struggle to see intentional inefficiency as anything but pretension. Like it's all just fetishizing living a more analogue life.

For most people hand cramps are caused by using the wrong/bad tool and bad body ergonomics and awareness. After I've upgraded to better pencils and pens, I've had to use way less force to use which mitigated some of the cramping. The rest of it was just me using only my wrists and straining my fingers to write which is entirely incorrect.

I've also tried to go digital for note taking but I find I rarely ever did it properly and also rarely reviewed. I also ended up waiting way longer for the apps to load than needed for such short and simple notes. Now I only ever add events into my calender, the rest I just write down on a piece of paper whenever possible.

[–] tables@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago

I like writing things by hand. I don't do it because of the supposed brain activation, but I genuinely like the feeling of writing. That's most of it, honestly.

On a more practical note, I find that I'd rather have more organized information in electronic format, but writing by hand is much simpler for quick notes - so I'll usually jot down stuff I need to last a few days, meeting notes and such, and I might type those things out in a tidier manner if I feel like the information warrants it, if it's something I might need to come back to in a few months or years.

While yes, I technically do type faster than I write by hand, when I'm taking notes of something, I usually mix sentences with quick sketches and diagrams - and I can do that much faster by hand than using some sketching software.

[–] milkytoast@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

my handwriting is fucked, and i find typing easier. so i don't handwrite unless strictly necessary, and even then, it's usually no mare than a few sentences

[–] pbkoden@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago

I second this. My handwriting skills have atrophied after so many years of typing. I can't read my own notes half the time (I keep a notepad handy at work) and filling out a greeting card is an exercise in frustration. Just give me a keyboard.

[–] Turkey_Titty_city@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

it's great. i like fountain pens and write a lot by hand.

[–] oyenyaaow@lemmy.zip 1 points 1 year ago

I'm learning another language, and writing by hand feels like the fastest way things get remembered in my mind. It makes the learning more...visceral, I am more engaged in things that happen instead of an audience passively absorbing and experiencing. And i think that that translates to other experiences because i love handwriting, i love the act of putting words onto paper and other medium.

Someone who engages the world another way - when your information is tied to the flow of characters instead of shaping the characters themselves, of course sees it differently. A visual artist who rarely types and puts down thought in sketches instead of words - will struggle to type their vision too when they would rather put down a series of images and just a minimum of words .

[–] HubertManne@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago
[–] ShadowRam@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

Handwriting no. Waste of time.

Drawing the beginnings of a layout by hand, that makes sense and it's faster than trying to draw something with a mouse.

[–] dumptruckdan@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

I prefer to journal by hand, mainly because journaling on the computer feels unnatural somehow. But I can't write more than 1-2 pages before my hand cramps up.

[–] Eigengrau@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

I hate the feel of writing on paper

Handwriting on screens also too slippery , unless you put matte screen protector , but that brings another issue : wearing pen nib down

[–] xstatdisk@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

I like writing and taking notes by hand. When I need to think something out I write it. I like this primarily because I can do things like add arrows, create bubbles, and create diagrams much easier and faster by hand than with a screen. I want to get an e-ink tablet at some point, but for now a paper and pencil/pen is cheaper.

[–] Bishma@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

I've gotten bad writers cramp within just a few minutes of writing since the 90s. Using the alternative pencil grip (where it rests between my index and middle fingers) helped me get through college, but I also opted for typing as much as possible. Now handwriting feels unnatural, to an extent.

[–] buckykat@lemmy.fmhy.ml 1 points 1 year ago

It's simply untenable if I expect anyone else to read it. When I was in school I even had a 504 plan to avoid handwriting assignments and used an alphasmart for a while.

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