this post was submitted on 07 Mar 2024
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WetShaving

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7
Thursday SOTD Thread - March 7th, 2024 (sub.wetshaving.social)
submitted 8 months ago by wetshavingadmin@sub.wetshaving.social to c/wetshaving@sub.wetshaving.social
18 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

Share your shave of the day!

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[–] sahenders@sub.wetshaving.social 5 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Mar 7, 2024 - MM24 4th Match-Up: DG vs. ZM

DG and ZM both have great bases, with ZM slightly leading with the extra skincare ingredients. Both collaborate with incredible perfumers, and they both create excellent scents of their own.

The shave today really came down to Yuzu or Oud. I had laid out DG's Y/R/P and ZM's Amir to decide which one to use. Both prominently feature beautiful Rose and Patchouli scents, so it was the darker Oud that hit me just right this morning.

This match-up was a really tough choice.

Rating: 4.5/5

[–] gcgallant@sub.wetshaving.social 3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

My take is that you chose perfectly. In all likelihood, DG will take this round so you can use both Amir and Y/R/P as part of this month's competition.

[–] sahenders@sub.wetshaving.social 3 points 8 months ago

That's probably true.

[–] walden@sub.wetshaving.social 4 points 8 months ago (2 children)

March 7, 2024

  • Brush: Maggard 24mm Synthetic
  • Razor: EldrormR Industries MM24
  • Blade: Personna GEM PTFE (6)
  • Lather: Barrister & Mann/Zingari Man - Nocturne - Soap
  • Post Shave: House of Mammoth - Santa Noir - Aftershave
  • Fragrance: Stirling Soap Co. - Varen - EdT (#MMarch24)

Prepare yourself for a hot take - both of these brands aren't really my cup of tea. Scott just isn't my type of guy, and then there's the whole "You named your brand after a marginalized people", which I honestly can't really take sides on. Sure, it's bad to say "I got gypped", but Heather never said that. On the other hand, I've seen other well-liked artisans call things retarded without being publicly reprimanded for it.

I tried to use other brands that are named or themed after groups/places with some history of being marginalized. Mammoths were hunted to extinction, and Stirling Soap Co. is named after a place in Scotland. I could have also used Southern Witchcrafts but I had to draw the line somewhere!

For the record, I'm neither here nor there about the Zingari branding, although sometimes there are certain soaps that make me scratch my head. I know Heather isn't referring to slave owners, but maybe don't use "Master" if your brand is already under scrutiny by a big group of wetshaving gatekeepers.

[–] gcgallant@sub.wetshaving.social 1 points 8 months ago

Absolutely terrific comment! I tend to focus on Heather's products rather than her company name. On the name, I give her the benefit of the doubt. It is highly unlikely that she knowingly chose a brand name that is insulting to a group of people. But I think her products are terrific. If I have an opportunity to meet her at Maggard's in April, I'll ask her.

[–] djundjila@sub.wetshaving.social 1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

You named your brand after a marginalized people

That's missing the point. It's named after a racial slur used to refer to a marginalised people. Important difference IMO.

Stirling is named after a locality, not an insult for its inhabitants

[–] walden@sub.wetshaving.social 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

My references to other brands were tongue in cheek, but maybe still in bad taste.

I keep hearing people say it's racist, but I can't find anything on the internet about it. All I can find is that in Italy it's sometimes used as an offensive word, but it also just means "Gypsy/Roma" or is used to describe someone who likes to travel. Being an American, I have no reference to how the word is used in other parts of the world, but all of the articles I can find don't paint the same picture as what people are saying on Reddit.

Words can have multiple meanings and it heavily depends on the intent.

Maybe I'm naive, but is it similar to "gringo"? I've been called gringo while traveling and it doesn't bother me, but at the same time that word can be used as an "offensive" word.

There are 4 businesses within 50 miles of me that use Zingari or Zingaro in their name. It's not done to be offensive.

Antônio Carlos Jobim, a very talented and respected musician, write a song called "Zingaro". Again, not offensive.

There's an opera called "Zingari". Again, not meant to be offensive in that case.

The word Zingari simply isn't used in America (aside from the restaurants that popped up in a search), so if someone is searching for what to call their soap business and is presented with the same Google results that I've seen... I see nothing wrong with it.

[–] djundjila@sub.wetshaving.social 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

"Gringo" may be offensive, but there's no history of oppression there. (Like "cracker" vs the nword, they're not the same).

Ion the case of Zingaro, Tsigani, Zigeuner, Gitan there is. The history of oppression includes systematic attempts of eradication and forced family separations similar to the situation with the Canadian Indian residential schools.

presented with the same Google results that I've seen... I see nothing wrong with it.

I mean, the first sentence on English Wikipedia:

Zingaro is an Italian derogatory word for a Romani man.

This may be more of a European thing, but systemic racism against Roma is very much still alive and causing a lot of harm.

I get that Heather had some romantic traveller and adventure image in mind, but that feels a lot like the seemingly benevolent racism behind the noble savage narrative about native Americans?

[–] walden@sub.wetshaving.social 2 points 8 months ago

This may be more of a European thing

I guess so. I have to do my "research" online because other than the hive mind of social media, I have no other reference to the word. Obviously the best thing to do would be to go out and find some Roma people and ask them what they think, but from what I've read online I'd get different answers from different people. Wikipedia is the only place that says it's 100% derogatory, and even then there's no official "page" for it.

Wiktionary, Collins Dictionary, Cambridge Dictionary, and Oxford Dictionary only go as far as to say it might be considered offensive depending on who's listening, who's saying it, and how they're saying it.

The word gypsy has gotten more and more unacceptable during my lifetime, despite the fact that some Roma people still call themselves that. Gypsy has worse etymology than zingaro. It's similar to how Native Americans get called Indians because people thought they were from India. Roma people were thought to be from Egypt, so they got called Gypsies. So here I am trying to defend Heather, when all of a sudden...

I had never heard the word Zingari/Zingaro until I started wetshaving. Ignorance isn't an excuse, but I'm trying to do my research here and all I can find is "it's offensive if used in an offensive manner".

[–] djundjila@sub.wetshaving.social 3 points 8 months ago

A Dandy Shave

  • Brush: Dogwood Handcrafts Papa Eld with Declaration Grooming B3 knot
  • Razor: Thiers Issard Le Dandy
  • Lather: Declaration Grooming — Scrooge
  • Aftershave: House of Mammoth/Noble Otter/Declaration Grooming Cerberus liniment
  • Fragrance: Echt Kölnisch Wasser N° 4711

This one was easy. I can't vote for Z. You can accidentally and unknowingly end up with a racist slur as your brand name, and that really sucks. I'm not trying to minimise how unfortunate this was for Heather of u/Zingariman to have happen to her. But once known, keeping that brand for years because of rebranding costs feels insensitive to me.

I'll buy Heather's products again the moment they have a different brand.

Le Dandy ++;
B3 ++;
Liniment ++;

[–] gcgallant@sub.wetshaving.social 3 points 8 months ago

March 7, 2024

2 passes. Face lather. Excellent shave.

Heather produces a wonderful soap base for shaving with a straight razor and her splashes and balms are terrific as well. From my perspective her Zingari Man products punch way above their weight.

Today's shave was actually a test shave. This is the fourth time I've used the Iwasaki, and after the last shave, I wondered if I could push the performance of the edge which was already excellent. But ... you never know until you try, so I took it back to the stones and pushed record on the camera. I was absolutely convinced that I would feel no difference between this shave and my previous shaves with this razor, however, this shave was a tiny bit more comfortable and a tiny bit closer than my previous ones. This razor is now at similar comfort and closeness as a freshly honed Fili 14; and I don't know of a higher standard.

[–] PorkButtsNTaters666@sub.wetshaving.social 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Thursday, March 7, 2024: Les jeudis du Père Lucien

My hot take: The Zenith XS horse is floppy (not so good), but wips up a creamy lather in no time (excellent). And I completely failed the alliteration, but Thursdays are hard mkay – there definitely is a void to be filled by say, Thurman's Soap Company, or Thunderbolt Thoaps, or thomething of that kind.

I haven't counted the number of straight shaves I have done (I'm probably not that far off 100 shaves), but I get the impression that I start getting the hang of it.

Have a good night!

~Shared via emacs & sotd.el~

[–] gcgallant@sub.wetshaving.social 3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

And I completely failed the alliteration

Yes, but you used French. All of us Americans are impressed ;-)

[–] PorkButtsNTaters666@sub.wetshaving.social 3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I don't know why, but your comment reminds me of this immortal chef d'oeuvre of American cinema 😂

[–] gcgallant@sub.wetshaving.social 3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Sadly, I can identify with Chevy Chase in that scene.

[–] PorkButtsNTaters666@sub.wetshaving.social 3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Every customer in a French restaurant can 🤣

[–] gcgallant@sub.wetshaving.social 3 points 8 months ago

My son, who lives in Paris, said the same thing :)