Ask Lemmy

Im pretty sure an incel blames women for not being able to get a relationship.
Its the change in mental framing from "maybe i should work on myself" or "i just havent had the right opportunity" to more of a "women hold too much power over me and are playing with me" or "ive done everything right, women owe me this"

Wikipedia sums it up better than i can:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incel

So, unless you find yourself blaming/resenting women, then you arent an incel. Your still just figuring things out like tge rest of us!

The term "Incel" started out as just meaning "involuntarily celibate", referring to men who, like you and I, have struggled to form meaningful relationships with women.

The term actually originated in forums that were used as like a support group for men who were feeling alone, isolated, and alienated.

Unfortunately, if you get enough guys like that together, they might start riling eachother up and convincing each other that it's not their fault, it's the women's fault. Remember, the one common trait among all these guys was a lack of ability to connect with a woman.

@Darth_Vader__

"Incel" doesn't just mean someone who is involuntarily celibate.

It's a bit like how "Democrat" doesn't just mean someone who participates in a democracy and "pro-life" doesn't just mean someone who likes life on earth.

Incels are a specific subculture, it has a violent misogynistic ideology and has spawned several mass murderers.

I am in a similar situation as you, I am 36 and have never been in a relationship, I don't blame anyone, I am a bit sad about it when I think of it, but I can't blame anyone for it, it is just circumstances.

I think that "incels" are defined by their feeling that they deserve a relationship with a woman, that they are being denied what they believe is rightfully theirs and that by just being polite they can convince a woman to fall into their arms.

I don't concider myself an incel, for me based on circumstances if anything I have choosen to not persue a relationship, there are reasons for this, late maturity, being overweight, balding, concern for if I would find a woman who would be fine with me having zero experience in both day to day things as well as intimite moments.

But these are all problems that I have to work on, and I do my best with the tools I have.

Does that make me an incel?

Nope, it's become a self identification ascribed to. Only defining feature of an imcel now is saying "I'm an incel"

And it happens to be that said communities are jam packed full of some extreme bigotry, hate, loathing, misogynistic behavior, etc etc.

Which means a person who identifies themselves with that crowd, can be assumed to be of the same cut of cloth.

In other words, a person like you would likely say "I haven't been with a woman but I ain't no incel though", to signal you don't identify with that culture.

Based on that last bit of your post, it sounds like you may actually not be that familiar with the incel community.

Short answer is that it goes much further than it seems at first glance. So,if you're feeling unhappy about your prospects, I'd recommend looking into other communities for the sake of your mental health.

Honestly, just focusing on a hobby of some kind and making connections with the community surrounding it would be infinitely better for you.

The problem is, the word "involuntary" in incel puts the blame on those who won't fuck them. It's not their fault they haven't had sex yet, it's those who keep denying them. This gives them a reason not to have to change their behaviors or thoughts, which keeps them undesirable. That's why they're frowned upon.

I haven’t ever had a relationship with a woman, but I don’t hate all women either. I just consider myself unlucky. Does that make me an incel?

No, if you don't hate women you're not an incel.

No one is entitled to sex. That is not a right anyone has. Thus, the only way to be involuntarily celibate is being force to become a monk under threat or something. The idea that people are entitled to receive the love/sex/intimacy of others is fucked up and betrays the fundamental trust implied by consent. Which is the right of everyone involved to refuse, withdraw, or straight up remove themselves from participating in an intimate situation, at any time, without the need to provide any sort of explanation or justification.

The proposal that these people are entitled to sex gives rapey vibes and naturally generates disgusts in anyone who thinks rationally about the proposition for more than a minute. Because of the implication.

An "incel" is inherently and unavoidably misogynistic. The concept of being "involuntarily" celibate is implying that it is the other woman (or man) at "fault" for not allowing the incel man (or woman) to have sex when the incel very much wants to. Being an "incel" absolves the user of the term of any and all responsibility for their condition and is basically an admission that they will never work to improve themselves or make themselves into an attractive option for their desired mate. It turns their target into a complete sexual object without any other considerations for their own desires.

You can be single and celibate without being an incel. That is just called being single, but open to a relationship or casual sex. It's also called being a normal ass human being who can hold a conversation and develop normal human connections without viewing anyone or everyone as just a slab of meat to be obtained.

Lots of good posts here so far. Something I haven't seen mentioned is incel fascination with what is essentially phrenology. "My jaw is only 34% as prominent as the ideal and therefore I will never know the touch of a woman".

You've already had some great answers, but I'll just leave another point here for you to consider - they are literal terrorists.

Not one, but several have used their "inceldom" in their manifestos before going on mass shootings (often targeting, or trying to target women exclusively) and many other shooters were active members of incel forums (and many active incel forum users who still haven't gone on a shooting spree openly talk about going on one).

I will strongly second whenigrowup356 - stay as far away from these people and their spaces as possible, they are toxic violent terrorists, and you should not only not want anything to do with them, but also not let them convince you to feel sorry for them, because as opposed to what they call themselves, the state they are in is anything but "involuntary".

The hatred of women from them.

I’ve never encountered an incel that wasn’t misogynistic. Generally they blame women for their lack of sex.

It is generally used to reffer to men who blame women for themselves not being able to get into relationships, not everyone who isn't in a relationship

I think it's important that we define what an incel is first and foremost, because the word has lost a lot of its meaning over the past decade.

Incel is short for 'involuntary celibate', or somebody who hasn't had sexual relations not out of a voluntary vow of abstinence, but rather because mental and/or physical factors have made them into an undesirable partner and have left them feeling shunned by society. This could be things like autism, personality disorders, physical disfigurement or major injury as examples.

Many people in that situation refuse to identify as an incel, because the incel community which several mass shooters like Elliot Rodger came from is deeply misogynistic and talks about women as if they're subhuman. They also idolize mass shooters as heroes. So maybe incel refers to that deeply misogynistic sect of the manosphere.

But more recently, incel has become something of a catch-all insult towards low value misogynistic men. Andrew Tate for example has been branded the 'Incel King' for the views that he preaches, even though 1. unlike an actual incel this guy fucks, and 2. a real incel wouldn't have the charisma to run a MLM scheme, cam girl business and an alleged sex trafficking operation.

There's something very unlikable about anyone who blames all their woes and mishaps on someone else.

For incels it's the women who have ruined society, for MAGAts it's the left, for tankies and left reactionaries it's the libs.

The one true facet stringing them all together is their inability to take personal responsibility for their situations (especially when there is any amount of public scrutiny, pride limits their growth potential).

There's a crucial distinction between someone that wants to have sex, but cannot, and someone that chooses to identify as that. To really become an "incel" in the negative sense, you lose the desire to have sex because being denied sexual contact by others is part of your identity now.

People that merely don't find others that are sexually interested in them can do things to help themselves, learn better grooming habits, dress nicer, practice approaching and talking to people, etc. Someone that has adopted the identity of "incel" can only help themselves by changing their perception away from the toxic void they found.

There are people who can't get laid but who aren't an incel because they don't blame others (especially women) for that.

My perception is that sex-starved males are seen as dangerous, and the fear of that easily translates into a stigma.

I recall my recently-divorced friend (with a young daughter) trying to describe this to me: how almost overnight the girly sleepovers and socials went from common & spread across the homes to "silently forbidden" and unspokenly "anywhere but his house". But he was the same guy as just days before, but (so the theory goes) the only change was that now people "knew" he was not being... pacified?

An incel blames women for their singleness.

There are some amazing people out there who just, for whatever reason, find themselves without a partner. Confidence, mental health, physical health, family commitments, location.

When they seek solice online they find themselves on the fringes of incel communities. However, it doesn't sit right, because they are not incels. They don't hate-blame half the population. They maybe blame themselves, or see the circumstances that led them to their present state before a blanket blame is cast upon a bunch of people they don't know.

People naturally don't want to think they are the problem. So, they blame society which leads to blaming women which leads to misogyny which leads to the dark side.

People who label themselves as incels are somewhat accepting that the factors that lead them to be incels are unchangeable ( physical characteristics, limiting standards, social deficiencies, bad luck). So they have taken the steps to the dark side. And vocal incels are more often well on that path.

While the incel movement may have seemed to be just some men who found community in others who haven't been in a relationship, something rather innocuous. It very quickly got hijacked into what it is today. It went from "I haven't been with a woman yet but I'm still looking and in the mean time i have my friends" to "It's women's fault that I haven't been with one and they use sex for power and are horrible people" and it devolved into worse things from there. The incel community was preyed upon by misogynist far right fascist and nazis. They were assaulted with propaganda in their communities, a place they had finally found that they were comfortable in. And when you are around those you care about, and they start espousing bigoted beliefs, some start to agree with it, and then most of them fall for it. It's not unreasonable to want community. Everyone wants that. But the incel community quickly became a community of people who hated that they were virgins and were willing to take their anger out on others. Particularly women identifying individuals.

You say they are lacking in a way they can't get women, I don't think is wrong. They really haven't been taught well by our society how to interact with women. They're trying to get into a relationship using what they've been taught, but they're floundering, reasonably, because society has taught them to view women as sex objects. Incels as a movement are a failure of our society, a failure of us teaching our kids how to act around others, including the gender they're attracted to.

I'm not nearly read up enough to give you much more information, but if you want, there's a book called Escape from Incel Island by Margaret Killjoy. It's really good and helps explain things far more eloquently and fully than me, a random lemmy user can.

Also, never having been in a relationship doesn't make you an incel, it just makes you someone who hasn't experienced that yet. And that's okay, we all grow at different speeds, it's okay to not having been with someone. We attach way too much to the idea of being with your first person. It's important to be able to respect and care about yourself somewhat before getting in a relationship, and it's okay if that takes a while. I didn't have that experience until my mid 20s, but it didn't make me any less of a person. Just remember to respect yourself, and to respect the others around you. And also don't treat women like sex objects, we are just humans, like any other. And there are 100% multiple people out there who will be interested in you, even if it takes a while to find one. I know you'll find someone, especially considering you're asking this question. You're willing to ask about tough topics and that is something a lot of people can't do. So good on you.

You know this is something that's super easy to research, right? Like the top answer literally just quoted wikipedia for you.

Just saying in case you're interested in becoming more "resourceful" some day

Originally, the label wasn't bad. However, it turns out a lot of pathetic people out there fall into the same description and suddenly the traits they brought along with them shifted the understanding of the words meaning.

Originally it was simply a way for lonely men to get encouragement from their fellow lonely men, hence the "involuntary" part of it all is that they don't want to be in their situation. However, with the evolution of the term and all the d-bags that jumped on it, it now means something almost completely different—certainly not something involuntary, that's for sure.

Terrorism and mass murder. I actually lived near one, a van attack in Toronto.

Do you call yourself an incel? Do you subscribe to their beliefs that they are entitled to sex and superior to women? Do you blame women for all of your problems? If not then you are not an incel. Just unlucky.

It's the socially-unaware and self-centered worldview. Not much else as all of the symptoms seem to flow from that.

Mostly the murder. Murder is generally frowned upon.

The word was originally coined by a woman to describe her own situation. It got adopted by the manosphere, and then the connotations changed over time to what it is today, which is a slur and a stereotype label.

Sorry if I sound like a pedantic linguist here. But the meanings and usage of words can change over time.

There's a podcast called "Incel" that you might find interesting. It's not my cup of tea, but the host does attempt to form a neutral, high level understanding of the incel subculture.