this post was submitted on 07 Jan 2024
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[–] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 87 points 10 months ago (18 children)

Time for the sartre quote again

Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.

The right wing fundamentally do not care about facts and meaning. You can give as many stats and facts as you want that disprove their position and it doesn't matter. They're not arguing facts. They believe they're right, and they'll make whatever noises they want to justify that.

They're bad people.

[–] vexikron@lemmy.zip 25 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Perhaps the greater horror of fascism, from a philosophical perspective, is that it is essentially against the concept of meaning itself.

Language is merely another tool to enforce domination and submission. All that really matters is being on the winning side.

[–] greenskye@lemm.ee 9 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Definitely the most horrifying part to me (at this stage anyway, I imagine I'll feel differently if they make it to camps phase later)

[–] Razzazzika@lemm.ee 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I really hope it doesn't get to the camps phase cause I'm know I'm at the top of thr list for an extended stay. (Or, very short stay depending on how extreme they wind up being)

[–] flipht@kbin.social 3 points 10 months ago

They've already got a better system than Hitler could have every hoped for: normal prison.

The US has the largest prison population per capita, plus migrant holding facilities, plus juvenile holding facilities.

All they need to do is capture the presidency and keep at least one chamber of Congress, and they can just expand the existing laws to target their enemies. The facilities are already in operation, they just need an excuse to grab the people they don't like.

[–] BackOnMyBS@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Anyone that's been in a relationship with an abusive narcissist can clearly see the playbook. They live in a world where the only thing that matters is power and control because their grandiosity entitles them to anything they want. They manipulate reality so that they are always on top. There is no truth beyond that. Additionally, since they are entitled to everything but don't get it, they see themselves as an eternal victim that blames everyone else. This makes any relationship with them inherently antagonistic. Thus, anyone debating with them using logic to reach a valid conclusion will be wasting their time because the goal of the narcissist is simply to have power. They will dodge questions, distort reality, and even straight gaslight.

Another technique they use is to project. They assume that everyone else is like them, so when they accuse someone of something, the vast majority of the time it is a confession. For example, if they accuse someone of stealing an election, it's because they tried to steal it but were unsuccessful. Since they were unsuccessful at winning the election through cheating, then the other side must have been cheating too, or they would not have won. In there minds, everyone is playing this game. They literally cannot conceive a world based on rationality and see anyone that engages in that as a threat that will dismantle their delusional grandiosity.

Watching the MAGA movement is like watching a narcissist function on a societal level. It really is the same thing. If the Democrats truly wanted to rid the country of this deranged movement, then they would hire a team of psychologists that specialize in working with narcissists in order to develop a skill set to control and limit the abuse this mentality pushes onto others. Otherwise, we're all screwed because a narcissist cannot stop themselves from abusing others.

[–] rottingleaf@lemmy.zip 5 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Too bad I haven't read Sartre, that quote is brilliant and I already have reinvented it poorly a few times.

(Usually while analyzing verbal encounters with Turks\Azeris on Armenian issues, though, since open anti-Semites are hard to find, but them too.)

[–] Fur_Fox_Sheikh@sh.itjust.works 3 points 10 months ago

Highly recommend the essay that quote is from: "Anti-Semite and Jew". It's written from that post-liberation of Paris/ending of ww2 perspective, but a lot of the insights on the nature of that kind of societal hate still hold up pretty well.

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[–] psud@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I wonder if that sort of right wing person is capable of doing science. I think they can't, due to the parallels with the most deadly scientific fraud perpetrated by Ancel Keys. He had no qualifications, but in the late '40s he stole a hypothesis and claimed it was his

This new affliction heart disease could be caused by eating saturated fats

The only good thing he did was design a good study to test the hypothesis, but his study unfortunately proved the opposite. People in the control group (eating the normal diet full of butter, eggs, and meat) lived longer than the intervention group, who replaced butter, eggs, and meat with linoleic acid (an omega 6 oil)

So he buried the study and said "we didn't run the study long enough, but we are certain due to the results we have that saturated fat is causing heart disease"

[–] rottingleaf@lemmy.zip 2 points 10 months ago

They can. They can even combine real science with tangible results and pseudo-science. It has all been witnessed in history.

[–] Xanis@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

They are and yet we, through their actions over the years, and our own inaction, are playing their game. We continue to talk instead of act. We continue to argue instead of act. We speak of standing up and yet do not act. We hope that, in the U.S., the justice system and democracy will act for us and yet we do not trust it, and still we do not act.

I know this is a little harsh. After all, we are doing something. Just that the Republican base and especially the MAGA cult is willing and has acted. Not that we should take such harsh action, only that I feel we rely too strongly on pushing our "leaders" instead of just coming together.

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[–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 79 points 10 months ago

I'm old enough to remember when Benghazi was Obama's fault, and then it suddenly was Hillary's fault.

Their base forgot, but I didn't...

Ya know who's fault it actually was the? The GOP that cut funding for security in Benghazi

[–] OpenStars 61 points 10 months ago (11 children)

When will we learn - "both sides" isn't something that THEY actually believe (they believe in winning, however/whatever it takes, and they are quite aware of how different that makes them from us - in fact they despise us for that), it is troll-bait meant for us to get distracted, taking time to respond to it rather than move forward with whatever ACTUALLY NEEDS DOING.

[–] averagedrunk@lemmy.ml 19 points 10 months ago (8 children)

I'm a big believer in the "both sides" theory. Stick with me here.

One side is a trash can fire. They do some fucked up shit.

The other is the Springfield Tire Fire.

Both sides suck, but one side sucks so bad that there's no way to ever fix it.

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[–] Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 12 points 10 months ago (2 children)
[–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 3 points 10 months ago

Indeed, the idea that fascists can be subdued by winning enough "Good boy points" with "Proper decor" is why we're in this mess.

[–] OpenStars 3 points 10 months ago

LOVE that channel :-)

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[–] Nobody@lemmy.world 35 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Hillary would have been the perfect president for Covid. She would have shut down international airports and mandated rigorous screening to avoid spread.

The authoritarian tendencies people worried about with Hillary would have led to a quick and overwhelming reaction to Covid. We might not have been hit that hard.

[–] yata@sh.itjust.works 37 points 10 months ago (1 children)

A stick in a pile of flaming dogshit would have been a better president than Trump.

[–] rottingleaf@lemmy.zip 10 points 10 months ago

That's an artful way of repeating what the previous commenter said.

[–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

She would have shut down international airports

Event 201 conclusions said the opposite.

mandated rigorous screening to avoid spread.

Yes, this was possible. Many countries did track and trace well.

[–] JustEnoughDucks@feddit.nl 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Yes and here, in much of europe, we literally don't have to worry about covid at all. Nobody wears a mask anymore, not because of some political protest like in the US, but because covid rates are so low while US and Canada keep having huge waves because people are so anti-themselves and refuse to do a very simple easy thing to protect themselves and each other.

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[–] jasondj@ttrpg.network 3 points 10 months ago

And nobody would’ve died so it would’ve been overreach and unnecessary.

[–] Cosmonaut_Collin@lemmy.world 9 points 10 months ago

Clearly the numbers need to be bigger to gain their support.

[–] luckyhunter@lemmy.world 7 points 10 months ago (3 children)

And Trump is leading the polls for the first time EVER. He won in 2016 while behind in the polls.

[–] AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world 6 points 10 months ago (1 children)

He lost the general election. By over 3 million votes. He won the EC because, for the 5th time in just under 250 years the EC went against the popular vote.

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[–] Tb0n3@sh.itjust.works 7 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Honestly there's hundreds of millions of Americans who don't give a shit either way. Who gives a shit what the loud ones say. What's important is what the most people say.

[–] Fuck_u_spez_@sh.itjust.works 16 points 10 months ago

What's important is what the most people say.

It would be if it weren't for the electoral college.

[–] OpenStars 3 points 10 months ago

I hear what you are trying to say (e.g. 11% are hard-right, roughly the same are hard-left, leaving almost 90% somewhere in the middle), but on the other hand... MOST people (I think?) in the countries that Nazi Germany took over did not desire to be invaded. In like manner, not everyone in Russia (most people even?) would like for the invasion of Ukraine to stop, and yet it goes on. i.e., not everyone's opinion is always taken into account equally.

Recently we just had a fantastic example in how McCarthy was booted from his Speaker role... by a handful of hard-line extremists. Never mind what "most" people want: the extremists pushed, and they won.

Give me a lever long enough and a fulcrum on which to place it, and I shall move the world. - Archimedes

[–] mateomaui@reddthat.com 2 points 10 months ago

Even that is dubious if what most say is based on nonsense.

[–] Sotuanduso@lemm.ee 3 points 10 months ago

Trump supporters support Trump.

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