this post was submitted on 31 Jul 2023

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Does this instance have a stance on right wing disinformation communities? (lemm.ee)

submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by lagomorphlecture@lemm.ee to c/meta@lemm.ee

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There's a new one suddenly popping up in my feed but obviously the reports are being "resolved" by the mods of that community. They suggested to me that I block their community but I will not because that is how you get a cesspit of an instance. How do we report disinformation communities straight to the admins?

Edit: the admins did remove the community in question so I'm going to take that as the official stance on disinformation communities and also assume that any type of community (right wing, left wing, or other) that are intentionally spreading disinformation will be removed. That makes me feel much better about the situation since this type of thing is pretty much guaranteed to pop up again.

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[–] rm_dash_r_star@lemm.ee 55 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (29 children)

The admin here takes a conservative stance on defederation. He doesn't do it unless there are lemm.ee rules violations or network abuse. I haven't looked at any explodingheads content, but if it does not violate any lemm.ee rules and presents no network abuse it will probably not get defederated.

I agree with lemm.ee's philosophy on defederation and that's one of the reasons this is my home instance. In general you can't call for defederation just because you don't agree with content. If it's blatantly offensive then I suppose that would be valid grounds, but I would hope that reason is used sparingly. I mean discussion that's offensive to you may not be offensive to me.

[–] Asthmatic_Goose@lemm.ee 36 points 1 year ago (7 children)

It's hosted on this instance: https://lemm.ee/c/vaccines

"All reports calling post here missinformation will be ignored unless the post says that covid vaccines are healthy. Which is dangerous missinformation because covid vaccines kill."

[–] CommunityLinkFixer@lemmings.world 7 points 1 year ago

Hi there! Looks like you linked to a Lemmy community using a URL instead of its name, which doesn't work well for people on different instances. Try fixing it like this: !vaccines@lemm.ee

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[–] lagomorphlecture@lemm.ee 28 points 1 year ago (4 children)

This isn't about defederating it's about misinformation communities being hosted on this instance.

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[–] argv_minus_one@beehaw.org 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Blatant lies are blatantly offensive.

Attempting to institute a brutal theocratic dictatorship and genocide all LGBT+ people is also blatantly offensive.

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[–] aleph@lemm.ee 27 points 1 year ago (7 children)

This instance is still federated with explodingheads, so I wouldn't expect anything to come of this. I saw the community you're speaking about and it seems to be pretty small-time. You're best off just blocking it.

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[–] dmention7@lemm.ee 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's barely even misinformation, but definitely some of the laziest trolling I've seen in years.

[–] lagomorphlecture@lemm.ee 26 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

He's doing that because I upset him but if you look at the actual links they go to known disinformation sites.

Edit: and he's also probably upset about the downvotes, which were definitely not all awarded by me.

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[–] shootwhatsmyname@lemm.ee 12 points 1 year ago (3 children)

This is a general-purpose instance on a decentralized platform that doesn’t have much of an algorithm. All of us here most likely run into things we don’t like or want to see, and as long as it’s not illegal I think things like this will still be allowed. You can always block communities and follow ones that you like to tailor what you see. If you’re looking for more specific content all around, I’d join an instance that’s more specific to the type of content you’re looking for

[–] lagomorphlecture@lemm.ee 27 points 1 year ago (1 children)

We're talking about a community that is dedicated to posting misinformation and apparently trolling. It is very common for that kind of content and community to be explicitly forbidden in general purpose online communities because that isn't general purpose content. This isn't a matter of things people simply don't want to see. It's content that has proven to be problematic for any community that it infiltrates and generally results in a decline in quality and decorum.

[–] shootwhatsmyname@lemm.ee 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I agree. The unfortunate reality is that the line between misinformation and opinion is very different from person to person—especially when it comes to politics. It’s easy to moderate and remove illegal content based on local laws of the country an instance resides in, but trying to moderate content from a single U.S. political party raises more questions and will take more volunteer manpower from admins. We would need to define as a community:

What is the criteria for a misinformation or trolling community?
Will we defederate from entire instances if they meet the criteria for misinformation/trolling?
Will we regulate all types of communities (like technology, hobby, humor, culture, news, and war-related communities), or will we only regulate politically-driven communities.

I still don’t think this is the right move. I joined the Fediverse because of the ability to post and consume content without any person or entity manually or automatically determining what I can and cannot see. I specifically chose this instance because of it’s relaxed policy on defederation. I value being able to see all content and be aware of everyone’s voice, even if it is blatantly false information or offensive.

[–] dmention7@lemm.ee 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I don't think anyone is advocating for defederation, just upholding some base standards for discourse on communities directly hosted by this instance. If it was just a normal rightwing sub, I'd agree with you, but defending a blatant troll/disinformation sub is getting into "paradox of tolerance" territory for me personally.

Hell, the snowflakes banned me for making a single post warning another user not to feed the trolls. 😂

I have zero problem with staying federated with instances I vehemently disagree with. But I also have little desire to stay on one that "Free Speech"es itself into becoming a safe space for trolls and disinformation peddlers.

[–] Grangle1@lemm.ee 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The one problem is, specifically with this type of conversation, anyone even in the center is not welcome in the conversation because the echo chamber is so strong that anything even in the center is instantly labeled "misinformation". Who decides what the difference between "opinion I disagree with" and "misinformation" is? Far too often it's left to a person or group, be it on the left or the right, that holds that anything they or the most vocal political users disagree with is "dangerous misinformation". And I tend to notice that unless it's a specific right-wing instance like explodingheads, anything that's not on the far left is either down voted to oblivion or outright removed and anyone who posts or says anything positive about it is effectively driven out, including people who argue such things in good faith. That tends to lead to the creation of such instances as explodingheads and attitudes like the people who reside there.

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[–] shootwhatsmyname@lemm.ee 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Hell no, I’m not vouching for defederation or defending those communities in any way. Step back and look at the bigger picture with me. I think there are potential problems with moderating based on vague and non-concrete things, and I’m trying to further the discussion so we define them better together.

If we’re going to remove the communities OP is referring to, for example, we need to define (1) what qualifies as misinformation and trolling, and (2) what content/communities/users we’re proposing to remove in the future.

If we use dictionary definitions…

misinformation: false or inaccurate information, especially that which is deliberately intended to deceive

troll: a person who makes a deliberately offensive or provocative online post

…then admins will have the new responsibility of (1) deciding whether content is true or false, (2) determining the intent of the content creator, and (3) deciding what is offensive or provocative.

Are we going to remove content if it offends someone? Will admins be deleting content based on the assumed intentions of the creator?

That’s not the instance I signed up for, and it also goes against basic human rights. I can see it being highly problematic for moderators and admins in the long run unless we move away from being a “general purpose” instance.

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[+] WoodlandAlliance@lemm.ee 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

[deleted]

[–] shootwhatsmyname@lemm.ee 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah of course. I think there are some big-picture issues with moderating “misinformation” and “propaganda” because of how different those definitions can be from person to person. One person might see something as misinformation, while someone else might not see it as misinformation. Another person might value seeing both sides.

“Misinformation,” and “propaganda” are both by definition based on the intentions of the creator, and that’s a difficult thing to try and regulate in an unbiased way while retaining human rights of expressing thoughts and beliefs. A worldwide general purpose instance on a decentralized social network should not be removing content based on assumed intentions or offense.

If we’re dead honest, we are all just repeating things we’ve read, heard, or learned from someone else. Very few of us were actually present in the moment something was done or decided. I think we all should have the freedom to express what we’ve seen, heard, or learned from somewhere else here on this instance.

[–] raptir@lemm.ee 12 points 1 year ago (6 children)

I'm new here so I don't have much of a vote, but I have mixed feelings here. I like the idea of not blocking content, but at the same time I think a Vaccines community that is dedicated to spreading misinformation is not something healthy to have.

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