this post was submitted on 25 Dec 2023

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A cargo plane flew 50 miles with no pilot onboard using a semi-automated system. An aviation expert says the technology could address the pilot shortage. (news.yahoo.com)

submitted 10 months ago by L4s@lemmy.world to c/technology@lemmy.world

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A cargo plane flew 50 miles with no pilot onboard using a semi-automated system. An aviation expert says the technology could address the pilot shortage.::The flight system allows a plane to be remote operated by a pilot on the ground, which could streamline pilot airline operations in the future.

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[–] randon31415@lemmy.world 125 points 10 months ago (4 children)

This will be done more and more until the first crash. Then everyone will freak out and everything will be grounded. The engineers will point out that statistically the flights done this way were safer ( 1 million miles were flown by AI in the last 3 years with only one incident. The same done by commercial pilots would have caused 3.5 incidents!)

Then other incidents will be dredged up. Some won't be actual incidents, some won't be the fault of the AI, and some will be because a human overrid AI control. However, the public will firmly be on the side of only humans should fly planes. Laws will be drafted. Then loopholes for "drones" will be made. A decade later these loopholes will be large enough to fly a 737 through.

No one will remember why they were put in place in the first place, but one political party will be firmly against removing the laws. It will take another generation for them to finally be removed, and by that point computers will be so far integrated with humans that biological humans might be banned from flying under the law if things didn't change.

Hopefully, people will look back on this and say, lol, no, that post was edited in 2035, but good try.

[–] Agent641@lemmy.world 24 points 10 months ago

Can you tell us the lotto numbers please?

[–] SlopppyEngineer@lemmy.world 9 points 10 months ago (1 children)

However, the public will firmly be on the side of only humans should fly planes. Laws will be drafted. Then loopholes for “drones” will be made.

That part could just as well go another way:

The transportation and large sellers of packages, like Amazon, strongly lobbied the government. Now any victim of a crash with automated planes gets a standard payout from the insurance. A class action lawsuits from family members of the victims was eventually decided in favor of the corporations.

[–] BearOfaTime@lemm.ee 1 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

I've read your life is only worth $10k.

I have nothing to back that up, but if anyone finds the source of that quote, I'd be interested.

Yea, no thanks on automation. In the end I'm still dead by another human's mistake. So I'd rather have a pilot on board.

I've seen how bad aircraft automation is already. Much of it shouldn't even be in the air currently. It's already overridden pilot commands łor at least ignored inputs as outside parameters), crashing planes.

[–] adj16@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago

😆

I think you’re spot on

[–] SociallyAwkwardLinux@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago

I'd read this book.

[–] EmperorHenry@discuss.tchncs.de 110 points 10 months ago (7 children)

How about we just make being a commercial pilot worth people's while instead of replacing them with robots?

Why can't the parasites in the executive board room ever just pay their employees more? "nO bOdY wAnTs tO wOrK aNyMoRe!" No, nobody wants to work in an abusive workspace for shitty pay just to get fired once the time for a raise comes around.

[–] SpacePirate@lemmy.ml 27 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (3 children)

According to the Bureau Of Labor Statistics, the median salary for airline captains, first-officers, second-officers, and flight engineers in the United States is $203,010 as of 2021.

The big problem is actually in certifying people qualified to take those jobs, which takes additional time and money, mostly to pay for flight time for training. It can take a few grand for just a personal pilot license, but to fly an airline, you need instrument, commercial, and Airline Transport Pilot License (ATPL) certifications, plus increasingly expensive type ratings for the various aircraft you will be flying, a minimum of 1500 hours of flight time, and multiple years at the bottom working your way through smaller regional airlines and courier services.

You can get through the commercial licensing in 12-18 months and about $40k in flight time and insurance, but that is barely enough to get your foot in the door making $50k a year, and even then, you’re still not allowed to fly parcels or passengers for money. Getting those licenses will take another 18 months and another $40-80k, again, mostly in flight time.

That said, once you have ATPL, the company will start paying for your flight time, and you will be earning a 6 figure salary. After 5 years or so and about $100k investing in your training, you should be making over $200k, and can begin to recoup those costs.

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[–] silas@programming.dev 23 points 10 months ago (2 children)

One solution to this would be having humans in the board room instead of parasites. Not sure who’s idea that was

[–] PapaStevesy@midwest.social 3 points 10 months ago

Unsurprisingly, it was the parasites' idea.

[–] aeronmelon@lemm.ee 2 points 10 months ago

board room filled with parasites

"Ssssss, the humanssss are coming for our jobssssss!"

[–] NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip 14 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Actually, this seems like a really good path towards that.

Some people like spending 40 something weeks out of the year on the road. Others will enjoy "having a home" and remotely landing a hundred planes a day from the comfort of an office building

[–] JoMiran@lemmy.ml 18 points 10 months ago

Finally my ~40 years worth of playing MS Flight Simulator will pay off.

[–] Infynis@midwest.social 1 points 10 months ago

Why an office building? I can already run Microsoft Flight Simulator at home!

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[–] JJROKCZ@lemmy.world 51 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Anything will be done to address “shortages” other than paying fairly

[–] iopq@lemmy.world 9 points 10 months ago (2 children)

You need training to fly, so there's a lag between you posting higher salaries and actually getting new pilots

[–] Brkdncr@lemmy.world 21 points 10 months ago (1 children)

While you are right, the airline industry has known about this for a while and did nothing.

[–] Baines@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago

we knew about this in early 90s lololol

[–] KevonLooney@lemm.ee 2 points 10 months ago

No there really isn't. The Navy and Air Force are full of people who love flying. Even people who can fly but don't qualify to be fighter pilots. They work on planes, design them, or fly transport planes.

Usually the jobs outside the military pay better (cybersecurity, IT, etc.). Flying commercial isn't that much better because of the hours. Imagine having better hours in the military and a better retirement package after 20 years. That's why there's not enough pilots.

[–] LEDZeppelin@lemmy.world 20 points 10 months ago

Cocaine delivery just got a lot easier and cheaper

[–] 18107@aussie.zone 15 points 10 months ago

Adequate for cargo flights, not happening any time soon for passenger flights. Aviation safety is very strict and slow to change.

[–] db2@lemmy.world 10 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Tesla autopilot for airplanes. What could possibly go wrong.

[–] cerberus@lemmy.world 11 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Considering most all commercial flights are fly by wire except for taxi, takeoff, and landing… not sure

[–] db2@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago (3 children)

"with no pilot onboard"

[–] AnneBonny@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 10 months ago (1 children)

We've been flying things without pilots onboard as far back as WW2.

[–] Alexstarfire@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Bombs don't count.

[–] AnneBonny@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Target drones, not the buzzbombs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Tiger_Moth#Gunnery_target_drone

edit: I suppose you don't have to land gunnery targets just like you don't really have to land bombs.

[–] topinambour_rex@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Well, there is a pilot veteran with ptsd along the passengers, he could maybe do the job. And he knows one of the air hostess.

[–] db2@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago

But he's got that drinking problem..

[–] cerberus@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago

Yes I understand and agree that this is not the right path to take.

Automation however is inevitable. There is proven tech that’s existed for decades, the only new things being added here are taxiing, takeoff and landing (and honestly takeoff and landing are already automated, they’re just not used as much)

[–] BearOfaTime@lemm.ee 1 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

And we currently see issues even with current (relatively) modest automation systems that are designed to prevent pilot error.

There's way too many failures with current systems to even talk about full automation yet, in my opinion.

Let's get current automation subsystems to much lower error rates first.

I've never seen a fuel injection system on a car suddenly stop delivering fuel for no apparent reason, then startup again. The computers for such systems in cars are tremendously over-engineered.

I can't understand why we accept less for aircraft systems today. This didn't used to be the case.

[–] SendMePhotos@lemmy.world 10 points 10 months ago (1 children)

To address the pilot pay, in my own opinion I think that flying is reasonably paid. Most entry level jobs (in my area) range between 70-90k. This is comfortable for the most part and above all common jobs.

The main issue for me is the training costs. I would still be headed towards the aviation industry if I wasn't held back by the financial debt that I would incur.

[–] Shirasho@lemmings.world 5 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Pilots are paid bank BECAUSE the training is so expensive. If you make the training cheaper the compensation will drop with it. Of course lowering the barrier to entry is a good thing, but don't expect the compensation to remain high.

[–] SendMePhotos@lemmy.world 6 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

You right. But like, ironically, I can't do the training with a family to care for.

When I asked around to the other flight students on how they are paying for it, it was 45% GI Bill, 50% daddy/grandparents paying for it, and the rest were paying bit by bit or finally making enough money to afford it.

[–] Canadian_Cabinet@lemmy.ca 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

It also depends if you go with a school or an independent instructor. I spent a good chunk of cash getting my PPL before I decided to change careers because of how expensive every step towards my ATP would be

[–] SendMePhotos@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago

Yeah, I went 141 and est total cost was over 150k but that has government assistance for a portion where I didn't have to pay up front.

Part 61 is absolutely cheaper overall but you have to pay up front with no assistance.

[–] Rapidcreek@lemmy.world 6 points 10 months ago

I don't want to fly with an automated pilot. I want someone with skin in the game.

[–] JoMiran@lemmy.ml 5 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

I have an uncle that quit being a pilot because being a trucker paid much better. I not stating an opinion, just a fact. Do with it what you will.

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago

Fallout New Vegas is the best video game of all time. I'm not stating a fact, just an opinion. Do with it what I will.

[–] CarbonIceDragon@pawb.social 4 points 10 months ago

So, basically just a really big drone?

[–] bloopernova@programming.dev 3 points 10 months ago

Not a single Terminator 2 quote. I am disappoint.

[–] 1984@lemmy.today 1 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

You know what else could fix the pilot shortage?

Decent wages and much lower training costs.

[–] Coreidan@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago

Never going to happen

[–] AbsoluteChicagoDog@lemm.ee 1 points 10 months ago

Or, you know, just pay pilots more.

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