this post was submitted on 10 Dec 2023
22 points (86.7% liked)

Europe

8324 readers
3 users here now

News/Interesting Stories/Beautiful Pictures from Europe ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡บ

(Current banner: Thunder mountain, Germany, ๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช ) Feel free to post submissions for banner pictures

Rules

(This list is obviously incomplete, but it will get expanded when necessary)

  1. Be nice to each other (e.g. No direct insults against each other);
  2. No racism, antisemitism, dehumanisation of minorities or glorification of National Socialism allowed;
  3. No posts linking to mis-information funded by foreign states or billionaires.

Also check out !yurop@lemm.ee

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
top 6 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[โ€“] tal@lemmy.today 22 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Summary for those who don't want to watch the video: the video is basically saying that what matters is not mostly debt in euro terms, but debt as a percentage of GDP. It's possible to increase GDP rather than decreasing spending, and this will also reduce debt as a percentage of GDP. The author argued that Italy's increase in debt multiplier in past decades was not far off those of some other countries in Europe; what differed was lower GDP growth, and therefore there is a case that GDP should be increased instead.

Productivity growth had trailed off about the time that Italy joined the euro.

Reducing government spending also reduces GDP, and doing so unwisely may make the debt-to-GDP ratio worse, especially over the long run.

[โ€“] tal@lemmy.today 8 points 11 months ago

Okay, my response:

what matters is not mostly debt in euro terms, but debt as a percentage of GDP

I agree with that.

It's possible to increase GDP rather than decreasing spending, and this will also reduce debt as a percentage of GDP.

Also true. However, it's also more straightforward to reduce spending -- that's pretty reliable. People have a lot of plans for increasing growth, and those don't always pan out. I think that if Italy had maintained a history of growing, then there wouldn't have been a focus on spending reduction.

I'd also add that some ways of generating growth -- like, for instance, having more immigration, are not necessarily popular and one actually has to do them.

what differed was lower GDP growth, and therefore there is a case that GDP should be increased instead [of reducing spending]

I'm not sure that that is true. That is, I wouldn't say that a given country having a given amount of growth also means that one should expect another to do so. It's a sign that it may be possible to do so, but there isn't any country that you can hold up as having the "right" rate of growth that should be adopted by others.

Reducing government spending also reduces GDP, and doing so unwisely may make the debt-to-GDP ratio worse, especially over the long run.

No disagreement, but I don't think that an argument made in the video based on that holds -- the argument was that several areas that saw reductions were a bad idea to see spending reduction because those are areas that are generally considered to have a positive return. Educating one's population may be generally a good idea, but that doesn't mean that it's simply a good idea to spend more on education ad infinitum. There's also a point where one is not making a great return; it's not that there is a fixed, favorable return that one expects to get back every time one inserts an additional euro.

[โ€“] Kissaki@feddit.de 7 points 11 months ago

I love when teaser texts are ads instead of teasing the comment /s

[โ€“] DieguiTux8623@feddit.it 5 points 11 months ago

Whether it is the real problem or not, Italy's completely f*cked up and is steadily going towards bankruptcy, which will be worse than the Greek one. Maybe that will be the reset we need, though, to start it all over again (maybe without messing everything up again).

[โ€“] Sagan@eslemmy.es 3 points 11 months ago

Following my previous post, someone recommended me this other channel instead, hopefully it is more accurate than than the other one

[โ€“] PipedLinkBot@feddit.rocks 1 points 11 months ago

Here is an alternative Piped link(s):

https://piped.video/watch?v=WezK5HKgiS0

Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.

I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.