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Kids — You Don’t Need Anyone’s Permission To Learn To Program (medium.com)

submitted 11 months ago by Aboel3z@programming.dev to c/programming@programming.dev

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[–] killeronthecorner@lemmy.world 18 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

I have a GCSE in IT, and a degree in CompSci and... I completely agree. You don't need any of it, relevant experience is worth in the region of 5x-10x for every hiring manager I've known, and for myself.

However, it does cause a bootstrapping problem. Getting that first opportunity can be tough, and there's a good chance that you'll be filtered out at CV vetting time by a recruiter matching keywords and tallying CV content before you even get to a stage of consideration by hiring managers.

And they both have pros and cons. The pros of not doing a degree are mostly fiscal. I'd advise anyone who can afford the overhead of doing a degree to do one still.

tl;dr - lack of education isn't and shouldn't be an obstacle to starting a programming career, but you should still understand what you're up against in the average hiring process and tune your approach accordingly.

[–] lysdexic@programming.dev 11 points 11 months ago (1 children)

You don’t need any of it, relevant experience is worth in the region of 5x-10x for every hiring manager I’ve known, and for myself.

The only time I had to brush up on data structures and algorithms is when I apply to job ads, and recruiters put up bullshit ladder-pulling trivia questions to pass to the next stage of a recruiting process. It's astonishing how the usefulness of a whole body of knowledge is to feed gatekeepers with trivia questions.

[–] killeronthecorner@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago

Absolutely. I generally find any kind of analogous coding tasks - leetcoder style or otherwise - to be a huge waste of time.

It tells you significantly less than a 30 minute conversation will. Someone who doesn't know what they're talking about will out themselves quickly when you get into the nitty gritty of the full software delivery lifecycle.

[–] EnderMB@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago

I'm in the same boat. I also work as a mentor for people going through a computing apprenticeship scheme, where they work part-time at a big tech company for 3-4 years, and then have the opportunity to join as an entry-level engineer.

One of the big things people don't talk about as much in software engineering is imposter syndrome. It's very high amongst those with great academic achievements, so imagine for a second what it's like if you're self-taught! Many bootcamps and apprenticeship schemes cover the hard skills aspect, but the theory behind everything can be extremely important, even when it's not immediately obvious.

I agree with your points, and I'd say that adding everything else on top often makes getting a degree a no-brainer IMO. Obviously, it's expensive and time-consuming, but it gives you dedicated time to learn, ticks the inevitable box that many HR departments put in front of big tech job ads, and most importantly gives you a non-trivial task that you can point towards as proof of you belonging.