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the Logitech F710 is a solid controller to get if you’re on a tight budget, but perhaps not exactly the type of equipment you want to stake your life on. [...] Reviewers on sites like Amazon frequently mention issues with the wireless device's connection.

The reporter, who followed an expedition of the Titan from the launch ship, wrote that “it seems like this submersible has elements of MacGyver jerry-riggedness.”

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[-] OmnipotentEntity@beehaw.org 80 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Also of interest via this blog is this statement from OceanGate about why their subs aren't classed.

innovation often falls outside of the existing industry paradigm.

Bringing an outside entity up to speed on every innovation before it is put into real-world testing is anathema to rapid innovation.

If I wanted to can and sell hubris, I know where to source it from now.

[-] MrWhite@kbin.social 31 points 1 year ago

“Move fast and break things” maybe doesn’t apply too well to submarine design.

[-] ArtieShaw@kbin.social 18 points 1 year ago

That's a hard agree. I work in a highly regulated industry and literally every new dude who joins the company says some version of "I don't see why we can't just..." and proceeds to describe some moderately to highly illegal shit. Every single one.

It's wild. I think they honestly believe they're the first person to think up these completely obvious and simple "solutions" to problems that require some degree of control and complexity.

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[-] blivet@kbin.social 10 points 1 year ago

At my old job the director of my department had a poster up that said "move fast and break things", but he also demanded 99.9999% uptime.

[-] Cyzaine@kbin.social 9 points 1 year ago

I relate a bit too much to this... agile when convenient as well.

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[-] comicallycluttered@beehaw.org 12 points 1 year ago

innovation often falls outside of the existing industry paradigm.

Lol, the fuck is this even supposed to mean? Just say regulations. You know, honesty, with a touch of bullshit at the end.

Something like:

"Regulations are too difficult to deal with when you've got a substandard machine which wouldn't pass any of the requisite safety tests.

If someone happens to die, we've determined this to be acceptable collateral.

This is also known as innovation."

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[-] underisk@lemmy.ml 26 points 1 year ago

Some journalists did a story on this thing a while ago and it got lost for about 5 hours. During this time one of the reporters asked if it had some kind of beacon or transponder to locate it in situations like this. Their reply was something along the lines of “oh yeah that’s probably a good idea.” They never added it.

[-] Fauxreigner@beehaw.org 17 points 1 year ago

The lack of an emergency transponder is their biggest problem, followed shortly after by the inability to exit without outside help (which is literally what killed the Apollo 1 crew over 50 years ago). Next up, as pointed out in another thread, is that the sub is made of extremely brittle materials because that makes it lighter. Honestly, using off the shelf components for the controls doesn't worry me nearly as much as those other issues.

[-] TEKUMS@lemmy.ca 7 points 1 year ago

The more I hear about this the more I'm shocked that this death trap was allowed to operate at all! It seems on the level of that bear suit guy, super dyi energy but with no real use case.

[-] Very_Bad_Janet@kbin.social 10 points 1 year ago

You want to be more shocked? The pilot was the CEO. He was willing to risk everyone's lives and his own on this folly.

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[-] Thndrchld@beehaw.org 25 points 1 year ago

Man. That’s the control you give to your little brother because you don’t want him to get the good control all sticky.

[-] bob@lemmy.havocperil.uk 22 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

There's nothing wrong with using a game controller to steer the thing, I think the issue is more the lack of backup or failsafes.

Also, I'm very much a layperson in this field, but would it have not made sense to tether this thing to a ship on the surface? They could have kept in contact with the surface via the tether and had them reel the thing back in if there were problems with its propulsion or steering.

I saw the video of its interior. As someone who has claustrophobia, it's absolute nightmare fuel. It's a cylinder about 15 feet long and maybe 6 feet wide that you can't even stand up in. It's going to be very unpleasant for 5 people.

[-] Givesomefucks@reddthat.com 8 points 1 year ago

Also, there's no way to open it from the inside, they're bolted in.

So even if they surfaced, they'll still run out of air if they're not found soon.

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[-] omnilynx@lemm.ee 19 points 1 year ago

I was about to defend this (the US military uses XBox controllers for subs & drones), but then I saw that it was off-brand. No excuse for that.

[-] Killer_Tree@beehaw.org 12 points 1 year ago

Same, we use XBox controllers to operate remote cameras for pipeline inspections and they usually survive far longer than is reasonable considering some of the abuse we put them through. That being said, I have no idea about the quality of Logitech, but at the very least they should have had a backup controller available as it would have a small footprint and be a huge failsafe.

[-] OmnipotentEntity@beehaw.org 15 points 1 year ago

Amazon Link

2 AA batteries required. (included)

They forgot to change the batteries before sending the sub out 💀

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[-] BurningnnTree@lemmy.one 16 points 1 year ago

It seems like a really bad idea to use a wireless controller instead of a wired one. But I guess it shouldn't matter as long as they have a backup wired controller in case the wireless one dies.

[-] Gram@lemmy.one 24 points 1 year ago

I think there's more to it than that.

When working at industrial factories if I catch a glimpse of something run off a cheap consumer alternative to the standard industry equipment I immediately question everything. If they're willing to skimp on that item, where else have they skimped?

[-] Bucket_of_Truth@kbin.social 16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)
[-] Givesomefucks@reddthat.com 8 points 1 year ago

They navigated by getting text messages from the ship...

That's fucking insane when you're going miles under the sea

[-] meat_popsicle@kbin.social 7 points 1 year ago

You take that back! Camper World is a hallmark of quality, I bought all my kidney extraction equipment from there!

[-] jrubal1462@kbin.social 7 points 1 year ago

Username checks out and concerns me.

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[-] Mugmoor@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 1 year ago

I take it you haven't heard about what happened to this sub.

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[-] coldhotman@nrsk.no 16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I hope the best for them as well, but even if they make it to the surface, they can still suffocate because they're bolted in from the outside.

[-] xffxe4@lemmy.one 13 points 1 year ago

Personally I think the best case scenario is for it to have imploded and they all died instantly. Any other option seems like torture to me.

[-] coldhotman@nrsk.no 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)
[-] remmon@kbin.social 12 points 1 year ago

Floating on the surface is only barely better than stranded deep underwater, there's no hatch for them to open so they'll still be limited by oxygen and there's no locator beacon that might help rescuers find them.

[-] aegisgfx877@kbin.social 12 points 1 year ago

No locator beacon?? Like.. why the hell not??? Was this whole thing an exercise in seeing how stupid they could be?

[-] SelfAwareCoder@kbin.social 11 points 1 year ago

Well the sub can't be opened from the inside, so if they're floating on the surface they'll still run out of air if not found. And people really underestimate how hard it is to find small craft in the ocean. You're looking for a needle in a haystack, with the added twist that the ocean currents move stuff around so the search area grows

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[-] grte@lemmy.ca 13 points 1 year ago

I saw a video of this submersible. The view was through a TV. Imagine going to the bottom of the damned ocean to look at the Titanic on a TV.

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[-] Very_Bad_Janet@kbin.social 13 points 1 year ago

For me the worst part is that there is a father and son aboard. And the son is only 19 years old. I can't imagine how horrible it would be to know that my own son is going to die because of my idea to go on such a risky expedition (even if it was the kid's idea the father should've nixed it).

https://au.lifestyle.yahoo.com/london-tycoon-shahzada-dawood-son-104752797.html

[-] argv_minus_one@beehaw.org 12 points 1 year ago

Will the resulting scandal be known as OceanGategate?

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[-] RotaryKeyboard@lemmy.ninja 11 points 1 year ago

Water and an X-Box controller. What could possibly go wrong?

[-] MrWhite@kbin.social 11 points 1 year ago

Well, if there’s water inside the sub you probably have more serious problems to deal with.

[-] LittleKerr@beehaw.org 10 points 1 year ago

To be fair at that depth if there's water inside the sub you have 0 problems to deal with because you are dead

[-] Gork@beehaw.org 10 points 1 year ago

I've used the F710 so that our family can couch co-op in the living room. For a Logitech controller it's pretty solidly built and is of the era where Logitech peripherals were of good quality (unlike now, rip new G503s). I noticed that the wireless range kinda sucked if it didn't have direct LOS to the receiver, but it has good rumble feedback and I like the smooth matte black underside material (feels good to the touch).

[-] Satiric_Weasel@beehaw.org 14 points 1 year ago

Bu would you stake your life, and the lives of others, on it performing well thousands of meters below the ocean?

I used, and loved, a cheap little Logitech keyboard for years before it died on me. Wouldn't Jerry-rig it into my car and use it as my steering apparatus though.

[-] CmdrShepard@lemmy.one 10 points 1 year ago

I wouldn't even stake my Elden Ring playthrough to a cheap third party controller. I've been playing consoles since the early 1990s and there has never been a time where 3rd party performs better than 1st party.

[-] administrator@lemmy.pro 8 points 1 year ago

UK billionaire Hamish Harding, who holds three Guinness World Records and was both in space and in the lowest depth of the Mariana Trench, is one of the people currently on board the Titan.

Yikes, that’ll be some big trouble for them

[-] CoWizard@kbin.social 8 points 1 year ago

Lets hope the company stays afloat after this one. Hopefully they can get more billionaires to sign on

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[-] BaroqueInMind@kbin.social 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

What an absolute shit way to die: freeze to death from hypothermia due to the electric heaters running out of battery, crushed to death by water pressure compressing you inside a compartment, or drown to death in a dark unforgiving cold that strips you completely from all hope as it slowly rises and takes your precious air.

[-] mobyduck648@beehaw.org 11 points 1 year ago

It’s barely a consolation but I read that during the Thresher submarine disaster the men would have been killed in 1/20th of a second, too fast for their nervous systems to process the implosion.

[-] burningmatches@feddit.uk 8 points 1 year ago

The sub has seven different ways to re-surface and went silent during the descent phase, so there’s only really one likely option — crushed in an instant. It could get stuck at depth if it got tangled but that seems unlikely during the descent.~___~

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[-] ImplyingImplications@lemmy.ca 7 points 1 year ago

The next version will use a Mad Catz controller

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[-] briongloid@aussie.zone 6 points 1 year ago

I keep seeing this headline and it's a bit misleading to imply that its not a functional way to control that type of vehicle, even the American military has been known to use them.

The purpose for the control method was to have something to have a go when it was safe, they had several on hand in the off chance something happened to it.

These controllers are a product of decades of functional advancements, them being intuitive to use doesn't mean that they are not efficient and functional.

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this post was submitted on 20 Jun 2023
146 points (99.3% liked)

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