I'm a tech lead developer. But the past couple of years I've been looking high and low for sustainable work. The most I've gotten is projects people pulled from their back pocket because they felt sorry for me.

I've been at this opportunity search for years now...not just months. I can't pay for my health insurance anymore and my diet is 90% peanut butter sandwiches.

What hasn't worked: following the "formula" everyone tells you to follow. Reach out to the recruiter, talk to the hiring manager, get a take-home assessment (I always decline these), then maybe get hired. Perhaps it's because my mind tends to work more like a business owner--the closer I can get to taking ownership of projects the happier I am.

For the longest time I didn't talk to recruiters. They'd be the first step in a company wasting my time. I realized this is because the employer is paying for the recruiter. The recruiter is getting paid by the employer and could be completely blind to how much of a jerk the employer is.

So I decided, you know what? Tech pays a boat load of money. Even if half my paycheck were spent on someone I'd still have a heck of a lot left for savings. What if I worked with a reverse recruiter.

Better yet, several!

So I've started the rounds. I am hiring recruiters to work for me. I was very transparent with the fact that I'm talking with others, and said whoever gets me a position first wins and gets the royalty.

I'll even generate more competition further down the line. Once I'm financially stable I'll continue to work with the recruiters and offer to pay them again for yet another position. Generate competition with my current employer.

I'm sick of being looked over. It's about time I took the reigns.

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[–] I_Saved_Hyrule@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What the heck did I just read?

You refuse to fully engage in the interview process by declining take home assessments, while saying you need the money and don't have enough to do. I... think I've just spotted your problem?

Look, take home assessments suck. I get it. It's work that you don't get paid for, it's tricky to fit into your normal routine, etc. But one of the biggest problems I have with take-home assessments is that they favor those without kids or without gainful employment, who have the time to prioritize the assessment and give it a few extra hours. Sooooo... Kinda sounds like you're in the sweet spot to benefit from this, and you're just rejecting it.

How exactly you think that this is the recruiters' fault is a little strange.

[–] PlanetOfOrd@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Take home assessments I've taken: at least 20 Jobs I've landed after taking an assesment: 0 Jobs I've landed from companies that don't have an assesment: at least 12.

Should I ignore the data?

In additon, I have a processing disorder which causes anxiety on tests. In school even after spending weeks studying I always got D's on test in school despite getting A's on papers and projects. Part of what I'm doing is taking back power from companies and individuals that don't understand neurdivergent individuals and feel that my declination of assessments is somehow a moral failing and an indication that I don't care about a company's success.

Trust me. I've been down that "just shut up and take the test" approach. It's only ended up with emotional abuse I'm just now overcoming and conquering.

[–] I_Saved_Hyrule@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Maybe instead of declining take home assessments, then, you ask for an accommodation for an alternate assessment citing your anxiety as a disorder. If nothing else, it'll have them think.

Though, regarding your data. You've gotten 12 jobs that you got without an assessment. Which... well, that sounds like a lot of jobs. Yet you say you're eating peanut butter. So... were those 12 jobs... kind of shit? Plus, getting passed over 20 times is... not that much in tech, unfortunately. So... I kinda think you should ignore that data?

[–] PlanetOfOrd@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

I've asked for accommodations. Even offered ideas for accomodations. Not a single company has been willing to budge.

I've also found companies that have unpaid labor (I.e. take home assignments) as part of their process brush off any interest in truly helping the team. After any interview, no matter how I'm treated, I always try to follow up with the team months down the line to see if the hire they went with wed helping them, and if they had any issues and needed a hand I'd be there to help them.

I still do this. I'll occasionally check in with teams that rejected me because I "wasn't a good fit." Without exception, any company that had an inflexible hiring process doesn't respond to my check ins (and it's not "oh I'm way too busy?" because I'll see a string of "too busy" social media posts like memes days afterward).

Keep in mind this isn't just a weekend event where I've experienced this. I've interacted with HUNDREDS of companies. My experience is my experience.

It all boils down to this: if a company can't see that I don't have their success in mind, they never will. I need to just keep searching until I find my own tribe. I've gotten very good at getting a "gut feeling" early when a company doesn't value what I can provide for them.

My tribe is out there. I just need to keep looking.

[–] thesmokingman@programming.dev 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

So you’re proposing to pay recruiters a bonus on top of the percentage they earn for getting you in somewhere? No recruiter is going to submit you to a position that doesn’t accept 3rd party and any place that accepts 3rd party is going to pay the recruiter either a flat fee or a percentage of your negotiated salary. If you’re telling recruiters you’ll pay them but only if you get hired you’re telling them how their job works already.

[–] PlanetOfOrd@lemmy.world -2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If the employer pays, fine. I don't give a damn. I'm just doubling my chances. If the employers are crap the recruiter has an incentive to look for new employers outside my network.

I basically have my own marketing agency. +1 for self-respect.

[–] thesmokingman@programming.dev 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That’s… That’s exactly what recruiters are without your harebrained scheme to pay them out of your own pocket. There’s a chance you’re stuck looking because you’re struggling to really grok the business side.

[–] PlanetOfOrd@lemmy.world -3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It all boils down to this.

Money = value.

The more money you pour into something the greater ROI (return on investment) you'll get.

In an employer/opportunity-seeker relationship if the employer is the one paying they're getting a better ROI.

[–] thesmokingman@programming.dev 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Whether you give a recruiter a bonus or not, the employer is going to pay them, probably a lot more that you. Typically when a recruiter gets someone hired they’ll get somewhere in the ballpark of 10% of the yearly salary. There might be clawback provisions, eg term in the first six months means refund or free hire. Companies also allow recruiters, actively engage them, or completely prevent them. In other words, there is no scenario where a recruiter submits you to something the company won’t pay them for.

I train my engineers to do what you’re doing only I don’t have them throw money away. The more people you know who are actively considering you for things, the better. That can certainly be hard with neurodivergence. Another important thing I train is carefully consider feedback instead of being defensive. If you want to waste your money, that’s on you. I just don’t think it’s wise and I think you’re going to get taken advantage of.

[–] PlanetOfOrd@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yup, I realize that's the way it's typically done. That's why I'm not playing that game.

I've already been screwed over. I've already had companies galore get really excited about hiring me, drag me through 4 hours of interviews, only to say I "wasn't a good fit." Not just once, not just twice, but hundreds of times.

Ideally the employer wouldn't be paying for the transaction. That's why I'm specifically having reverse recruiters compete against each other.

I've dealt with enough crap over the past decade I'm tired of being overlooked. It's time people took me seriously. How else can I out-build unethical tech if I'm not making money?

[–] thesmokingman@programming.dev 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah that’s not a thing. No one is going to submit a job app for you and do any of the interviewing. That’s not how it works and no company will do that. The only way any company will accept any resume from any recruiter is if they work with recruiters, ie the recruiter gets paid by the company. There is absolutely no process, below a very high executive level which you very clearly are not, where a recruiter wastes the time of a hiring manager trying to sell a candidate unless the hiring manager will ultimately pay the recruiter.

I’ve run out of ways to say a fool and their money are easily parted. I can only imagine how difficult you must make it for recruiters who are trying to help you grow to gain roles and hiring managers that see value beneath the glaring issues you present.

[–] PlanetOfOrd@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'd hope they wouldn't submit a job app for me.

I'd hope they connect me with the right people.

From what I remember people need tech work done, not computers.

[–] thesmokingman@programming.dev 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What you are describing here is not a recruiter, it’s a network. You build your network over time by creating good relationships and maintaining them. Friends from past jobs and recruiters that value me do exactly what you’re talking about for free. This isn’t a paid commodity and buying your way into a network is going to end poorly.

Do you go to local dev meetups? Do you actively participate in open source projects? Do you maintain a presence on LinkedIn? That’s what you actually want to do. You’ve fallen into an XY problem.

[–] PlanetOfOrd@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Yup, I have a connection of thousands of people in tech, hundreds of CEOs, founders, and presidents; I check in with them regularly. I've been to physical meetups. I ask what the need. I see if they need help.

For the past 3 years it's been, "Yeah, we might have something down the line soon."

I have a very active presence on LinkedIn. For the past 5-7 years I've been interacting with people. Publishing tech articles to help enterprise businesses for the last 2-3. I check in monthly with my higher ups by messaging them, and usually the messages go unanswered.

I've built my network over time. My network is a bunch of employed people and a bunch of unemployed people. Nobody actually hiring. I've been stuck in that rut for years. Again, the most success I've gotten is people pulling out random projects from their back pockets. Some of them I'm able to stay in contact with. Most of them I never hear from again.

SOMETHING HAS TO WORK! I WILL NOT FAIL! PEOPLE ARE DEPENDING ON ME TO SUCCEED!

[–] souperk@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

First of all, this post got me a bit worried about your mental health, is it possible you are under a lot of stress lately?

You are expressing something that I have been thinking too lately. Third parties, aka recruiters in this case, cannot be impartial if they are paid by one of the parties involved.

If you have an issue with your employer, you don't go to the HR, you get a lawyer. A person fully representing your interest, equipped with the knowledge to actually do that.

I think the same should be the case for employment seeking. It's not that you cannot build a network of colleagues, keep up with market trends, navigate legalities, and identify whatever new bullshit benefit companies are offering. But, delegating this job to a person/entity that specialises in it would most of the time be better.

Last but not least, I don't think the term recruiter is appropriate, and I believe transitional recruiters are not going to be willing to help you.

Best wishes on your effort!! Please keep us to date, I am interested to see where this leads!!

[–] PlanetOfOrd@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Thanks. I already know my mental health is in the tank. Has been since I started my career. I've lost count the number of times I've been fired (and learned from each one), but that has trained my brain to constantly be in a state of "I have to do a 1,000% percent job at this new position so I don't get fired." But then I end up getting fired anyway because I burn out. Add in the fact that I often spend months or years without payable work the stress just keeps stacking. It's not like it's a sudden stressor like the death of a loved one. It's an "undefineable" stresser that you can't quite get across to people who have been able to steadily work with a company for years without a fear of losing it.

The only way to break the cycle is the shout out the noise and aim for exactly the position I'll thrive in, to where my flaws won't be grounds for firing but will instead be what makes me "me." I've been told all my life I'm flaky, I don't listen (more of a processing disorder thing instead of a moral thing), I'm too creative...I've heard it all, and I'm sick of it. Since nobody is telling me I'm valuable, I'll say it myself.

My aim is to be an inspiration to people in my boat. That you can be labeled a "failure" by society but come out of it a winner.

I will not quit until I've made other people around me successful (with me joining along with them, of course).

[–] odium@programming.dev 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Lmao, you really pulled the uno reverse card on them.

[–] PlanetOfOrd@lemmy.world -2 points 1 year ago

Definitely.

Strangely getting a lot of negative comments. You'd think a story of someone who's been thru hell and keeps trucking and thinking creatively to find a way out would be inspriational. I appreciate the comment.