this post was submitted on 30 Nov 2023
301 points (99.3% liked)

politics

19104 readers
2539 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

The proposed rule, aimed at reducing exposure to a potent neurotoxin, would require water systems nationwide to replace lead pipes that carry tap water to homes, schools and offices

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 90 points 11 months ago (6 children)

Watch Republicans argue that lead is good for kids.

[–] Patches@sh.itjust.works 36 points 11 months ago (1 children)

The children yearn for the lead

[–] Zink@programming.dev 18 points 11 months ago (1 children)
[–] Brawndo@kbin.social 10 points 11 months ago

It's got Electrolytes!

[–] CosmicTurtle@lemmy.world 18 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Nah. That's not the playbook.

Whenever kids (actual, post birth kids) need protecting, it's all about "who's going to pay" or "taxes are already high" or "but that will be really inconvenient to the ~~upper~~ middle class".

The best excuse I've heard for a bill that would protect kids from pedophiles was "the bill would unfairly target conservatives". I can't remember if this was a federal bill or a local bill but I remember it coming up and people saying "You're telling on yourself."

[–] RubberElectrons@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago

Yo, what??? 😂😂😂😂😂

[–] Sterile_Technique@lemmy.world 15 points 11 months ago (2 children)

I'd be interested to see map of lead pipe concentration vs one of political affiliation.

[–] agent_flounder@lemmy.world 11 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

States with the most lead pipes, most at the top

  • Florida
  • Illinois
  • Ohio
  • Pennsylvania
  • Texas
  • New York
  • Tennessee
  • North Carolina
  • New Jersey
  • Wisconsin

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/states-with-the-most-lead-pipes

[–] grue@lemmy.world 9 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

You're going to see a map of older areas, that is, urban cores and inner-ring suburbs. In other words, I don't think you're going to find the correlation you're probably hoping for.

To be fair, though, the official government line -- uh, until today, I guess -- is that lead water mains weren't actually a problem because of the large volume of water flowing through them relative to the rate of corrosion, unless you did something stupid (like the Republican governor-appointed emergency manager did to Flint) to cause them to corrode abnormally rapidly. Hopefully there isn't much of a widespread correlation between political affiliation and brain damage from exposure to lead via plumbing at all.

[–] Buffaloaf@lemmy.world 11 points 11 months ago (3 children)

I'm pretty sure lead is what makes people conservatives. Look at when there was lead in things like paint and every car burned leaded gas.

[–] Jessvj93@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Biologist here, it gives you adhd (60% chance), autism, and cerebellar Hypodysplasia (cant remember the incidence rate for these last two, but want to say CH is 8%). Child abuses causes conservativism lol, but lead causes developmental defects starting as early as the embryo.

Source: “Half of US Population Exposed to Adverse Lead Levels in Early Childhood,” Michael J. McFarland, Matt E. Hauer, Aaron Reuben. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, March 7, 2022. DOI: 10.1073/pnas.2118631119

[–] halcyoncmdr@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago

To believe what current US conservatives are claiming now, you have to be developmentally defective at this point.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] almar_quigley@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Flashbacks to watching republican politicians eat that pink goo filler crap they put into meat that was controversial for a minute.

[–] Patches@sh.itjust.works 5 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

This?

Reminder these kids are all adults now. Though they are about 60 years away from being politicians.

[–] oyo@lemm.ee 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I had lead when I was a kid and I turned out just fine!

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago

Eating lead paint chips made me the man I am today!

[–] TransplantedSconie@lemm.ee 44 points 11 months ago (3 children)

That's SOCIALISM!! - Lead affected Republicans.

[–] QuantumSparkles@sh.itjust.works 13 points 11 months ago (2 children)
[–] Stovetop@lemmy.world 13 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

"The founding fathers had lead pipes and they turned out fine! If they didn't intend for us to have lead pipes, they wouldn't have put them in. Getting rid of them is simply un-American!"

[–] SamsonSeinfelder@feddit.de 6 points 11 months ago

Cant wait for republicans to mix Ivermectin-Horse-Dewormer with Lead to drink it on camera as a symbol of their patriotism. It would be a Christmas Miracle come true...

[–] LEDZeppelin@lemmy.world 7 points 11 months ago

“Let’s get rid of EPA” - Lead affected repubes

[–] LemmyPlay@lemmings.world 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Snowflake generation strikes again! Back in my day we were tough enough to resist lead poisoning.

[–] themadcodger@kbin.social 4 points 11 months ago

Narrator: "They weren't."

[–] PeepinGoodArgs@reddthat.com 26 points 11 months ago (4 children)

Although the infrastructure law dedicated $15 billion for lead pipe removal, the largest investment ever, there is still a shortfall. While advocates and federal officials estimate the total cost for lead removal at about $45 billion, the drinking water industry’s estimate runs as high $60 billion.

So, who's going to foot the bill for replacing the pipes while Marxists turn kids trans with their critical race pedagogy? Is replacing lead pipes really protecting kids?

Okay, but really, this is probably a strategically good idea. My proposed solution is to get the richer areas of the city/state to help pay for the poorer areas. Everybody has skin in the game as far as the benefits, so why not the costs?

[–] Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social 19 points 11 months ago (1 children)

the drinking water industry

I hate that this is a thing.

[–] trash80@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I don't think "the drinking water industry" is what you think it is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Water_Works_Association

[–] Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Oh, well that's okay.

But I still buy my drinking water from a private company with an unpronounceable name and I think that's bullshit

[–] trash80@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 11 months ago (3 children)
[–] silence7@slrpnk.net 3 points 11 months ago

A lot of communities have a for-profit utility which does the water supply, rather than running it as a government function to provide an essential service.

[–] Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social 3 points 11 months ago

You'd think so. You'd really think so.

But I'm buying my water from a French transnational for some damn reason.

[–] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

Well even if it were government someone still has to make the equipment.

[–] Candelestine@lemmy.world 13 points 11 months ago (1 children)

There's a solid line of argument here. Lead toxicity creates more psychopaths. And if they turn into serial killers, they don't care if you're rich or poor. We also don't have good mental health services available everywhere, so prevention is the most plausible solution.

This leverages fear, which is the primary lens some people view the world through. "You don't want more serial killers like we had in the 70s, do you?" basically.

[–] orclev@lemmy.world 9 points 11 months ago

The politicians won't care because they have gated communities and armed guards, and you'll never get through to the voters because Faux and the even worse places like OAN will be bombarding them with propaganda about how this is horrible big government overreach.

[–] orclev@lemmy.world 9 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Because you're not thinking like a kleptocrat Republican. The government is only allowed to spend money when it can be used to increase the bank account of someone rich, and never under any circumstances if it benefits poor people (unless someone rich receives a significantly greater benefit).

Republicans will fight this tooth and nail because the rich receive no direct or immediate benefit from this. Also they'll denounce any suggestion of rich areas subsidizing poor areas as the dreaded socialism which they'll argue is the same thing as communism which is the same thing as fascism. No that doesn't make any sense at all, but that's never stopped them before.

[–] PeepinGoodArgs@reddthat.com 5 points 11 months ago

The government is only allowed to spend money when it can be used to increase the bank account of someone rich, and never under any circumstances if it benefits poor people (unless someone rich receives a significantly greater benefit).

So, the EPA's (and other people who want lead pipes removed, their) communication strategy should be convincing Republicans that the removal of leads pipes directly causes their wealth to increase.

That shouldn't be that hard. Make it a business analogy, their favorite.

Like, in the same way business make capital investments to increase production, take advantage of economies of scale, and pay lower taxes, so too does making a capital investment in the removal of lead pipes, which lead to increased production, a happier workforce, and more trainable employees.

Or some soul-sucking shit like that.

[–] admiralteal@kbin.social 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Honestly, this is a real discussion we do need to have.

So many municipalities have over-expanded things like their water systems beyond the point that communities can afford to maintain them using the tax revenue generated by those communities.

Is it really doing right by a place to saddle them with a massive, expensive system they cannot afford to maintain? The federal dollars are going to show up, replace the system with a state-of-the-art one of at least the same size if not bigger, and then what? 30, 40 years from now, who will be there to give them the critical fixes they will still need? And in the meantime, their community will need to devote even more of its revenues (tax dollars) to maintaining the water system -- but that means neglecting other things that ALSO need spending.

The shit happening in Jackson and Flint isn't MERELY idiot government incompetence. It's also a sign of urban decay affecting so many municipalities. And it's going to get worse before it gets better at the rate we're going as a society because we keep build build build-ing while pretending cities don't need to be productive or have balanced budgets. But they do. Cities aren't national governments. They can't print money. If they issue bonds, they need to pay those bondholders back using real money collected from taxes. If they don't have the money to do city things, they just stop being able to do city things. And it doesn't look like bankruptcy when they cease to be able to do city things -- it looks like potholes and busted, toxic water systems.

That's not to say we shouldn't get these systems fixed so they aren't poisoning people. Of course we can't be poisoning people. But the discussion needs to be more sensitive than just "spend the money fix the shit no matter what it costs." Every city needs to think very, very carefully about how they may fix their systems to make them more sustainable in the future. No matter what they do, it is going to be financially devastating on some time horizon, but cities need to stop buying more infrastructure than they can maintain on debt and just shrugging the problem off to the next generation because that's how we got to this problem in the first place.

side-note:

My proposed solution is to get the richer areas of the city/state to help pay for the poorer areas. Everybody has skin in the game as far as the benefits, so why not the costs?

Backwards from reality. The richest parts of town, with the new, state-of-the-art infrastructure and the vastly inferior and less productive land uses typically generate a lower or even negative ROI compared to the poorer parts of the city. The poor neighborhoods more often subsidize the rich ones. Look at e.g., the case studies made by Urban3, which Strong Towns and other urbanist organizations often write up. The older developments are funding the spending on new infrastructure even while their own infrastructure is so neglected it is poisoning people. And just throwing federal dollars on it is not going to force a change in behavior in the cities.

Personally, I'd like to see any fixes for these old water systems attached to e.g., adding land use taxes (that would affect large lot R1A single family homes FAR worse than traditional (poor) communities) or dis-incorporating unproductive (wealthy) suburban areas from the city to fend for themselves (since they can afford it, unlike the productive, poor neighborhoods).

[–] BigMacHole@lemm.ee 9 points 11 months ago

That's SOCIALISM! I want my Tax Dollars used ONLY to force WOMEN to give birth! I DON'T want my Tax Dollars used to actually Protect Children's Lives!

[–] Ilovethebomb@lemm.ee 9 points 11 months ago

I'm utterly amazed this isn't already a rule.

[–] politicalincorruption@lemmy.world 8 points 11 months ago

To be fair, America’s pipes need cleaning. A complete overhaul is even better.

[–] June@lemm.ee 5 points 11 months ago

Wait, someone doing something for the kids that’s actually for the kids?

[–] ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works 4 points 11 months ago

Space age stuff. Really at the forefront.

[–] Kowowow@lemmy.ca 4 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

You know if they say it's for the good of the children they are up to something

[–] silence7@slrpnk.net 9 points 11 months ago (1 children)

In this case, removing lead pipes so that kids don't get brain damage.

[–] Kowowow@lemmy.ca 1 points 11 months ago

Not exactly getting the joke huh

[–] capital@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago

Those cases are usually easy to point out the ulterior motive.

I see no downside to this effort though.

[–] sexy_peach@feddit.de 1 points 11 months ago

Lead is soooooooo bad for you