Didn't Trump literally already say he was bringing back the Muslim ban and making it worse? But ok, I guess vote for him anyway. Most republican voters vote against their own interests all the time so they'll fit right in until they're deported.
this post was submitted on 31 Oct 2023
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They'll probably just not bother voting for either. Why waste time doing so if you'll get screwed regardless?
Why waste time doing so if you’ll get screwed regardless?
So the solution to this is to sit home knowing full well that benefits the man who is literally campaigning on the promise to screw you harder?
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If Arabs don't vote for Joe or stay home pouting on the couch on election day, the only thing they'll accomplish is to enable the tragic national nightmare of a second trump misadministration and a whole new tsunami of violent, stochastic terrorism-driven Islamophobia that has already cost innocent Muslim Americans their lives
They’ve been put in a seriously shitty and unwinnable situation. Either way, Arab Americans lose and that’s fucked up.
The system is broken. How bad would Biden have to be to make it not worth voting for him? What could he get away with in this context? When your alternative is Trump the bar is so incredibly low.
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It's too bad Americans can only choose between senile old people or criminals to be president
We're choosing between Trump and Trump?
It’s too bad Americans can only choose between senile old people or senile old criminals to be president
FTFY
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I really, REALLY hate this line of thinking. I mean with the burning passion of a thousand suns.
Biden is in an unenviable position. Hamas started this war by launching an unprovoked attack knowing full well they couldn't handle the crackback. Israel has taken their retaliation way too far, well beyond the point of being defensible. They've bombed refugee camps and hospitals and when asked about the civillian casualties, basically said "sucks to be them". What they are doing now is committing the exact genocide that they themselves have been worried about for decades if not centuries now. Biden made a mistake by continuing to stand by Israel even after they admit to and just shrug off the atrocities they commit on the daily, but there was never a position where Biden could pick a side (or even choose to remain neutral) without alienating an entire community of people.
And in almost any other situation, I may agree with them in their desire to either vote for another candidate or just sit home. But there are literally only three options here: Hold your nose and vote for Biden, vote for Trump in protest of Biden, or sit home and not vote at all, which is a de facto vote for Trump. In the immortal words of Rush, "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice." And that choice benefits Trump.
No matter how pissed off you are at Biden right now, do you think it would be any better under Trump? Did the Trump administration give you any indication that Trump is going to suddenly be sympathetic to an entire race of people that he to this day continues to use racial slurs to describe?
Your choices are (a) Biden, or (b) someone exponentially worse than Biden. That's it. This is the reality of the situation. If you do not choose (a), you're choosing (b). If you don't choose at all, you'll be given (b) by default. Your only realistic option is to choose (a). Doing anything else because you disagree with the path Biden chose to take will do nothing but make the situation worse. There is no other option. Voting against Biden or choosing to stay home in protest is a textbook example of cutting off your own nose to spite your face. I stopped supporting Israel in any of this the minute they thought bombing a hospital and writing off hundreds of patients as expendable collateral damage was in some way acceptable, but no matter how much I disagree with Biden's policies, I also know that the only other option available is much, much worse.
Be careful what you wish for, guys. You might get it.
That's a lot of words to say "at least he's not Trump!!" Sure would be nice if democrats had a strategy other than that. You know, like actually trying to improve things. What incentive do democrats have to improve things when your vote is guaranteed because not voting for democrats "is a vote for fascism"? I mean, here is Biden, pledging EVEN MORE billions of dollars to Israel as they ramp up their ethnic cleansing efforts. Democrats being fascists with a kinder image isn't good enough.
It sucks to vote for the least of two evils. But not voting at all is effectively half a vote for the worst of the two. Yeah, it feels like youre resisting if you refuse to play when there's only a two party system. Not gonna accept only having a choice between two crappy people and their parties! Hold out by not voting! Or by voting for someone who has NO chance ? Well great, then you up your chances of next having no choice at all -- with just one insane party and its dictator when they make it permanent. Not acting makes you responsible for installing Emperor Trump. Dint kid yourself.
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It'll have to be good enough for the next 4 years. When the choice is no longer incumbent vs actual monsters...
Pounding fists on the table saying it's unacceptable is just little kid energy; like breaking your own toys cuz you're mad.
I don't necessarily disagree, but the other side of that coin is that every election is painted this way in America.
Not saying it isn't true for Trump, but supposing he loses in 24, you don't think the GOP will stay sufficiently shitty that in 28 they send him up again, or a younger old white guy who's still sufficiently horrible?
It's a very very calculated part of the two party system that the Other Guy is offensive enough to those on the fringes of the tent to shame, scare, or guilt them into voting for "their" guy.
Again, I don't disagree with you, especially in this case, but it's exactly how the parties are designed to work to perpetuate the illusion of choice. If the Democrats can just point to Trump to convince progressives to keep voting for their guy, when or why would they ever shift their platform in a direction to court more progressive voters?
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That's the reality of the two party system. They don't matter, because what are they ultimately gonna do, vote for the other guy?
Or just not vote.
So few people vote that it doesnt even read as a protest anymore but "voter apathy" and one party benefits more from it.
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Man the amount of people in this thread that can't understand that some people don't want to vote for someone who is supporting a genocide of their own people. "But Trump is worse!" Well, yeah, but this is still pretty fucking bad, and were I American I'd hesitate to support it too. It's not like most of these people will vote for Trump, they'll just stay home or vote for a 3rd party.
Those comments make me so angry. There is a genocide being perpetrated on Arabs in Palestine, and Biden is actively defending it. It should be absolutely no surprise that Muslims and Arabs are not going to vote for a genocide denying turd actively trying to fund and arm the perpetrator.
For real, Democratic administrations can't go and have whatever abhorrent policies, including actively supporting an ethnic cleansing, and turn around and go "the other guy is worse, actually. And if YOU don't vote for us it's YOUR fault if this country devolves into fascism"
That is not what a functioning democracy looks like.
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Man, the amount of people in this thread that don't understand downballot exists, and that's the best tool to force direction changes within upballot. I always vote for the least worst on the upballot and exclusively progressive+educated in the downballot.
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“Look, we’re not silly—we know what Trump has done to our communities,” says Amer Zahr, the president of the Dearborn-based New Generation for Palestine. But when it comes to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, he continues, “The policies are basically the same. Except when Trump does it, you get some pushback from the Democratic Party.”
Positively delusional.
Right? Like great, vote for the GOP, they will definitely care about Arab policies. /s
Foolish and short sighted. Sorry but 2/3 of the US population supports Israel in this conflict, and likely all of the remaining 1/3 is from the young liberal left. Biden is an old democrat, expecting any other result was naive.
But sure, elect an authoritarian Trump. Then instead of protesting, just get thrown in a camp for not being white and christian.
It's like they've forgotten Trump's policies on Israel that were explicitly reversals of Dem policy during Obama, and even reversals of former, less jingoistically pro-Israel policies of the pre-Obama GOP. Which, mind, were major wins for the far-right government of Bibi which is currently in power in Israel, and eked into power by a fucking thread.
I guess the great thing about being an American is how well everyone assimilates, regardless of ethnic origin. They're just following in the long and storied American tradition of being fucking clueless about foreign affairs and having the political memories of goldfish.
So they're going to vote for Trump? Trump is a very strong ally to Israel. Trump certified their land grab of the golan heights. Best guess is he would certify the land grab of all of gaza
No, they just probably won't vote at all or vote for a third party who won't win.
Not that it's a good idea, but that's what will probably happen. And tbf this is more of a problem resulting from the two party system, so most people don't like to follow the logic of vote for the lesser evil when there are many other countries that don't force you into such a situation on literally every political decision.
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GAH ZAH. Have you seen this place? Rubble everywhere. You can't live there. It's in Israel, isn't it? I say, let the Israelis have their pile of rubble. Those Palestinians don't live there anymore, can't imagine why! They should take all of that rubble, crush it down into TINY TINY pebbles, and dump it all on Hilary's front lawn!
I still don't understand why the US only has a two-party system, and both of them suck ass. Can't they elect someone else who actually has actual goals that actually benefit the country and its people? Why aren't they allowed to do something like this? So much for freedom.
First past the post and the electoral college
Any third party candidate has next to no chance of winning, we have to vote against one side, not for another, so a 3rd party has to get enough support that they can pull the entire base of one side or the other side wins.
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The two party system is the system we have because we believe in the efficacy of it. I know we make the "vote blue no matter who" arguments but thats fucking exactly what they want. The parties are perfectly positioned to secure different sections of voters and lock them in. Where I felt like I wouldnt want another choice two weeks ago, I am far more likely to consider it now.
The two party system is the system we have because we believe in the efficacy of it.
No, noone believes in the efficacy of it. It is the system you have because it is now beyond anyone's powers to reform it. It is a mixture of archaic and wilfully corrupt laws and rules, which has petrified into something that disproportionally serves one minority fringe and its interests over all others.
The majority of people does not think it serves their interests, but they are powerless to change it exactly because the small but powerful group whom it actually benefits has disproportionate power to prevent it from happening.
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TBF, if Time magazine is saying this then it should cause at least some general concern as we're a week + one year out from the vote. Single issue voters exist. I'm not addressing/excusing the rationale behind this and I can't believe I'm calling this pain down on myself, but where are all the "big tent Dems" at? I mean, we can rationalize pandering to the right to pick up house moms that would otherwise vote for Trump, but the concerns of the Arab Americans are a bridge to far? This seems like a blind spot that could come back to haunt us like not campaigning in the midwest in 16'.
Before I get the "blue no matter whos" choir on me as well, just remember there's a saying that proceeded that; "Democrats vote with their heart" and we need to be very mindful of everyone that relates to, as we can't afford to lose anyone. Hate doesn't need to be rational. It often finds it's best fuel to be emotion.
I mean, man, if I had my way, I'd say fuck Israel, either reduce aid drastically or demand more accountability regarding civilian casualties. But unfortunately, a good half of Dem voters are still quite content to support Israel unconditionally. I absolutely am in favor of reaching out to the Arab-American community, but I doubt it's going to happen anytime soon.
Honestly, the 'best' realistic outcome is that many of us will remember this shitshow, especially those who are young enough to still be forming opinions on international affairs, and unconditional support for Israel will drop further with upcoming voting age cohorts.
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