They're about 17 years too late. There's nothing left of Facebook to be addicted to. It's a terrible little site that forces content on you that you have no interest in, no way to block categories, and is all basically stuff stolen from other sites that is already 3 weeks old. Facebook is a fucking garbage fire of its former self.
this post was submitted on 25 Oct 2023
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I assume they're talking about Instagram which is owned by Meta.
Well, it's not like IG is all that popular with The Kids™ either
It is. Among literal children, TikTok and YouTube wins because it's easy to consume without a real social network.
Among teenagers, though, Instagram goes hard.
Since 2014-15, TikTok has arisen; Facebook usage has dropped; Instagram, Snapchat have grown
I honestly don't know how I've ended up believing teens and the early 20's had ditched IG
That is patently false. Im 20 and everyone I knew in high school had an IG account. In college now it's a coin toss between IG and Snapchat.
Huh, I'd somehow ended up with the belief that it'd gotten less popular with younger folks
It got less popular as an image sharing tool. Some people (myself included) used it for photography still but most people used it as social media and for texting. A lot of people I knew had Instagram accounts with 0 posts but extensive stories and who were part of huge group chats.
Ha, ok. I don't use IG much; I follow a few animal-related accounts and use it pretty randomly. My running joke is that the influencers I follow are all raccoons.
I wasn't even aware it has a messaging feature before a friend of mine said something like "hey I sent you a message about XYZ on Instagram, didn't you notice?" and I was like "…Instagram has messaging?" 😅
Not to be an ass, but youre 20 so you arent one of "The Kids" anymore lmao. Youre an adult now. I think your point definitely still stands though. Im only slightly older than you and when I was in highschool virtually everyone had IG, Snapchat and Twitter. I dont talk to anyone in the highschool age bracket but I think they probably still use IG/Snap/Twitter (or X if you prefer).
I said I'm 20 because it's been only 2 years since I experienced that. My brother who is 17 has an instagram.
p.s., saying "not to be an ass" doesn't suddenly make anything following that not sound like you being an ass.
Being 20, I'd assume they have friends who are younger than them, and therefore are well and truly in touch with what "the kids" are doing.
I’m the last person who would leap to Meta’s defense, but I gotta ask: how, exactly, does one draw the line between a service being addictive and one that’s just well designed and pleasant to use?
I wouldn’t want this lawsuit to discourage quality web design.
Well designed service and addictive are completely different concept.
Addiction is not about how likely you are to use something and if you like doing so. That's naïve.
Okay, I have no problem admitting I’m naïve on the subject. If I guessed wrong, though, what is addiction about? It’s hard for me to imagine getting addicted to something you aren’t likely to use and don’t like.
Sure, I can see people changing their mind about something once they’re already addicted, but that’s not the same thing.
You can decide to use something because you like it and have a positive value for you, and then end up abusing that same things because of addiction.
Facebook and other social media actively engineer their service to exploit our natural brain functioning in order to became addictive. On top of that, they also give well designed services which can be useful and fun to use. People decide to use those services because of that and ends up becoming addicted and using them for a lot more time. This has nothing to do with good design.
It's like with smoking: people can find it a legitimate pleasure because of the taste, the social meanings and the gesture, but you ends up being addicted because of the nicotine, not because it's a pleasure per-se.
Thank you! I was starting to wonder if I simply expressed myself poorly, but you explained what I was trying to ask about. Now I get it!
This is an oversimplification, but do you think drugs don't feel fucking fantastic? Like, how would they hook you if there wasn't something about them on the first dose? Facebook does it by dopamine hits and confirmation bias, but the pathways are not far off.
Did you mean to reply to me? You’re kind of asking what I’m asking. I wouldn’t imagine there’s a “first dose” if the website is shitty and annoying to use. Instead of dopamine, wouldn’t there be bad memories and unpleasant associations?
Sorry, had a long day and parsed your comment as the opposite of what you meant.
quality web design sure, but Meta/Facebook is also well known for using dark patterns to promote stickiness and engagement. They’ve built Facebook to be addictive and keep people on it.
I wouldn’t want this lawsuit to discourage quality web design.
What does that have to do with Meta?
I don’t have an account on any of their stuff, but even I recognize that this is a nice burn.
The more I've delved into free and open source, the more I've seen what isnt normal: stuff that isnt designed out of the box to be eye-candy. Seeing the complete opposite side of the spectrum, its clearer that Facebook isnt just eye candy, good animations, timely pop-ups, and perfectly targeted ads. It's everything and more. The addictive tactics have created an emergent highly addictive quality. And dont even get me started on Instagram.
Interesting (and disturbing) contrast. I haven’t done any programming, so I appreciate the perspective!
There are plenty of information and even research onto the deliberately addictive design of Facebook.
There are more and better articles out there that I have read but this is one that I can find right now.
I can't give you a clear answer, maybe bots? Something is "missing" here on Lemmy, as somedays I spent as much as 8 hours on Reddit, whereas I spent 30 min at most per day here on Lemmy. It feels like Lemmy is mostly informative for me and not so much entertainment. But good riddance, I have so much more time to read books now!
Any good recent reads?
A lawsuit filed by 33 states in federal court in California, claims that Meta routinely collects data on children under 13 without their parents’ consent, in violation of federal law. In addition, nine attorneys general are filing lawsuits in their respective states, bringing the total number of states taking action to 41 and Washington, D.C.
“Meta has harnessed powerful and unprecedented technologies to entice, engage, and ultimately ensnare youth and teens. Its motive is profit, and in seeking to maximize its financial gains, Meta has repeatedly misled the public about the substantial dangers of its social media platforms,” the complaint says. “It has concealed the ways in which these platforms exploit and manipulate its most vulnerable consumers: teenagers and children.”
The suits seek financial damages and restitution and an end to Meta’s practices that are in violation of the law.
one conspicuous state absent to this lawsuit: Texas, which has otherwise gladly railed against "big tech" for dumb reasons that mostly seem to boil down to "you moderate too much and it's affecting people's ability to say heinous things on your platform"
I like (no) how everyone knows this is about everybody’s mental health but you can only push things these days if iT iS aBoUt cHilDrEn or other touchy topic. Apparently adults can’t have mental health issues I guess, otherwise how will they do their jobs for cents
You're absolutely not wrong, but I think they're making the case that it's like tobacco or gambling which society kinda agrees is stupid but allows adults to have the freedom to indulge in. Honestly I think it's a good comparison.
It is a good comparison, but it goes to show how the framing of individual freedom supremacy warps any discussion about the collective. As soon as you hit "freedom age" magic number, suddenly you can't hold accountable the powers at play anymore.
To an extent, but it's also not like tobacco or gambling are wholly uncountable in the way that Meta largely is. I would be much happier with companies like Meta if their products at least came with a warning about potential for addiction/depression etc. When they pretend they are places to "connect" and have "friends" it feels kinda like if a casino was allowed to present itself as an "investment opportunity".
The issue is their privacy violations. Let's not be China where we restrict and track Children's time usage.
The way some people plop a screen down in front of their toddlers, we are really gunning for government and ad networks being our babysitters.
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Its motive is profit, and in seeking to maximize its financial gains, Meta has repeatedly misled the public about the substantial dangers of its social media platforms,” the complaint says.
“Kids and teenagers are suffering from record levels of poor mental health and social media companies like Meta are to blame,” said New York Attorney General Letitia James in a statement.
The broad-ranging federal suit is the result of an investigation led by a bipartisan coalition of attorneys general from California, Florida, Kentucky, Massachusetts, Nebraska, New Jersey, Tennessee, and Vermont.
It follows damning newspaper reports, first by The Wall Street Journal in the fall of 2021, based on the Meta’s own research that found that the company knew about the harms Instagram can cause teenagers — especially teen girls — when it comes to mental health and body image issues.
Following the first reports, a consortium of news organizations, including The Associated Press, published their own findings based on leaked documents from whistleblower Frances Haugen, who has testified before Congress and a British parliamentary committee about what she found.
Surgeon General Dr. Vivek Murthy called on tech companies, parents and caregivers to take “immediate action to protect kids now” from the harms of social media.
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