this post was submitted on 16 Oct 2023
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the_dunk_tank

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It's the dunk tank.

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It's dogshit

Hamas and Israeli hardliners are two sides of the same coin. The choice is not one hardline faction or the other; it is between fundamentalists and all those who still believe in the possibility of peaceful co-existence. There can be no compromise between Palestinian and Israeli extremists, who must be combatted with a full-throated defense of Palestinian rights that goes hand-in-hand with an unwavering commitment to the fight against anti-Semitism.

Utopian as this may sound, the two struggles are of a piece. We can and should unconditionally support Israel’s right to defend itself against terrorist attacks. But we also must unconditionally sympathize with the truly desperate and hopeless conditions faced by Palestinians in Gaza and the occupied territories. Those who think there is a “contradiction” in this position are the ones who are effectively blocking a solution.

both-sides zizek-theory

We can and should unconditionally defend US slave owners' property rights. But we also must unconditionally sympathize with the truly desperate and hopeless conditions faced by enslaved people.

We can and should unconditionally support Nazi Germany's right to rid itself of undesirables. But we also must unconditionally sympathize with the truly desperate and hopeless conditions faced by those placed in concentration camps.

Feel free to add your own

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[–] Pluto@hexbear.net 62 points 1 year ago (1 children)

So we should defend Israel's "right" here but "sympatheize" with the desperate and hopeless?

Isn't the former more tangible than the latter?

[–] Pluto@hexbear.net 45 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Basically, Israel wins here.

[–] bbnh69420@hexbear.net 34 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Neutrality, siding with the oppressor, etc etc

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[–] kristina@hexbear.net 56 points 1 year ago (3 children)

zizek is a dumbass. hate how he constantly makes metaphors to SV. honestly anyone that does that needs to be thrown in a pit

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[–] uralsolo@hexbear.net 48 points 1 year ago (2 children)

it's the extremists that are the problem, not the responsible center

Literally doing horseshoe theory. Why did I ever think this guy was profound again?

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[–] RyanGosling@hexbear.net 47 points 1 year ago

A toast to the troops. All the troops. Both sides.

[–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 47 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Palestine has tried being peaceful, and was given sniper fire for the trouble.

[–] UlyssesT@hexbear.net 18 points 1 year ago

Permanent leg crippling is the enlightened compromise between slaughter and not slaughter ![centrist](https://www.hexbear.net/pictrs/image/42c3c427-17ea-41aa-958e-c3e33ef95186.png "emoji centrist")

[–] WhyEssEff@hexbear.net 46 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Utopian as this may sound

yeah zizek, you're right, that is insanely utopian. nonsensical and completely detached from physical reality, if you would

[–] Rojo27@hexbear.net 44 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What a long winded way of saying "both sides".

[–] Pluto@hexbear.net 32 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Both sides but also, Israel still wins here.

[–] AcidSmiley@hexbear.net 34 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The point of bothsidesing is always that the already dominant side wins by default.

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[–] GriffithDidNothingWrong@hexbear.net 37 points 1 year ago (4 children)

So he basically has the same nuanced understanding of the situation as my dad. Cool

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[–] WithoutFurtherRelay@hexbear.net 36 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Zizek always gave me grifter vibes but maybe that's just my ideology talking.

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[–] Pisha@hexbear.net 35 points 1 year ago

Always a good sign when self-declared Hegelians/dialectical materialists start denying that something is a contradiction

[–] regul@hexbear.net 34 points 1 year ago (3 children)

We can and should unconditionally support Israel’s right to defend itself

Fucking why must we do this, Zizek?

For one, I reject any definition of "defense" that includes bombing territory you do not control. Attacking in retribution is what it is. Second, accepting Israel's right to "defend" itself can only occur if you accept the right of "Israel" (meaning a Jewish ethnostate at the eastern end of the Mediterranean) to be something that ought to exist in the first place. To do this is to accept Zionism on its face as some sort of axiom. Why should any self-proclaimed socialist accept any ethnostate? A society that does not accept all cultures as equal is not one that should be propped up or supported.

He also accepts the framing of "anyone opposed to Israel is an anti-semite", but takes the slightly more nuanced view that "anyone who supports Palestinian statehood is not necessarily an anti-Semite". How brave.

Anyway this is trash. Almost everyone now recognizes that letting white people draw lines on a map is a recipe for disaster except in the case of Israel for some reason.

[–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 17 points 1 year ago

For one, I reject any definition of "defense" that includes bombing territory you do not control. Attacking in retribution is what it is.

There are situations where a counter offensive is the only way to defend oneself, though that is definitely not the case for Israel

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[–] the_kid@hexbear.net 33 points 1 year ago

he already is eating from the trash can all the time

[–] TheModerateTankie@hexbear.net 32 points 1 year ago

No country has a right to commit genocide for "self defense".

[–] dannoffs@lemmy.sdf.org 32 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Zizek should stick to hotdogs

[–] UlyssesT@hexbear.net 22 points 1 year ago

Both hot dogs are equally right and wrong and utopian as it may seem, duel wielding them is the most sensible solution. ![zizek-theory](https://www.hexbear.net/pictrs/image/70c62714-1856-49b0-8cda-fa7a0ba2bf9e.png "emoji zizek-theory")

[–] BurgerPunk@hexbear.net 32 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

As bad as i imagined. Straight from the trash can ![zizek-ok](https://www.hexbear.net/pictrs/image/893ccedf-243b-41b1-933c-dac92841ed0c.png "emoji zizek-ok")

[–] UlyssesT@hexbear.net 23 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ironic. He could save others from their unexamined ideology... but not himself. ![unlimited-power](https://www.hexbear.net/pictrs/image/b74faa9e-bfe5-4e87-a4af-cbad46a73c61.png "emoji unlimited-power")

[–] BurgerPunk@hexbear.net 20 points 1 year ago

Its not a tale the libs would tell you

[–] Judge_Jury@hexbear.net 32 points 1 year ago

terrorist attacks

Westoid ass

[–] logflume@hexbear.net 31 points 1 year ago (2 children)

unwavering commitment to the fight against anti-Semitism.

when you definitely have a good understanding of zionism

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[–] RedQuestionAsker2@hexbear.net 31 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Those who think there is a “contradiction” in this position are the ones who are effectively blocking a solution.

Oh, so ideas are the things blocking things from change. Here, I thought it was the people with guns upholding an imperial project. If we just change people's minds, the conflict will be resolved. What a relief, that sounds way easier.

Did this guy ever even pretend to be a materialist or did lacan fry his brain from the outset?

[–] UlyssesT@hexbear.net 17 points 1 year ago

effectively blocking a solution.

TFW final solutions are effectively blocked. ![scared-fash](https://www.hexbear.net/pictrs/image/54b6983b-7db3-4f0f-bab0-261464e6d2a9.png "emoji scared-fash")

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[–] TreadOnMe@hexbear.net 29 points 1 year ago

It is honestly incredible that every single theorist I was introduced to in college social history (as an alternative to Marxist theorists) has turned out to be complete and utter dogshit.

[–] SuperNovaCouchGuy2@hexbear.net 27 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Hamas and Israeli hardliners are two sides of the same coin. The choice is not one hardline faction or the other; it is between fundamentalists and all those who still believe in the possibility of peaceful co-existence.

Bro why should there be "peaceful co-existence" between a people and an invading nation, the very existence of which in any capacity is contingent on the violent forceful displacement and genocide of the said people?

I thought this guy does his research? Doesn't he know about how Israel came to be, how it destroyed Palestine and relentlessly torments the survivors in a concentration camp hell? Has Zizek gone senile?

[–] a_blanqui_slate@hexbear.net 17 points 1 year ago (55 children)

Isn't peaceful coexistence the sort of premise of the one secular state solution that's the standard leftist line though?

[–] LeninWeave@hexbear.net 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Peaceful coexistence within a free Palestinian state, not "peaceful coexistence" of so-called two states or "peaceful coexistence" within an Israeli apartheid state. The possibility of peaceful coexistence only exists if Israel ceases to exist and the colonization stops, and I think it would be pretty generous to Zizek to assume that's what he meant here.

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[–] ComradeCmdrPiggy@hexbear.net 27 points 1 year ago
[–] iie@hexbear.net 27 points 1 year ago (2 children)
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[–] PKMKII@hexbear.net 26 points 1 year ago

I wasn’t expecting much, but goddamnit did he really have to go with the pogrom comparison? It’s beyond intellectually bankrupt, completely ignores the historical context of pogroms being against the disenfranchised, not committed by them. Using it here has serious “reverse racism” vibes.

[–] windowlicker@hexbear.net 26 points 1 year ago

We can and should unconditionally support Israel’s right to defend itself against terrorist attacks. But we also must unconditionally sympathize with the truly desperate and hopeless conditions faced by Palestinians in Gaza and the occupied territories. Those who think there is a “contradiction” in this position are the ones who are effectively blocking a solution.

we can and should unconditionally support a lion's right to defend itself from the person its eating. but we also must unconditionally sympathize with the conditions faced by the person being eaten by the lion. those who think there is a contradiction is blocking the solution!

[–] sexywheat@hexbear.net 24 points 1 year ago (2 children)

How can such a smart man be so fucking stupid all the fucking time.

Too much Lacan will do that to you. Many such cases

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[–] infuziSporg@hexbear.net 23 points 1 year ago (4 children)

"Unconditionally" is not just an interchangeable synonym of "profoundly".

Words mean things.

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[–] heartheartbreak@hexbear.net 23 points 1 year ago

"You have to understand here, the HREAL antisemitism is not the idea that Jews cannot integrate into civilizations outside Israel and so forth. Rather the - and this will be controversial - solution to the Israel-Palestine contradiction is that we must support ONLY the hard-line Zionist and Islamist factions if we are to be impartial to reality."

Didn't even need to read the article as soon as I saw the title I knew it would be some stupid ![galaxy-brain](https://www.hexbear.net/pictrs/image/fa05d4fe-f163-40e0-a03d-912cd48096ad.png "emoji galaxy-brain") shit

[–] plinky@hexbear.net 22 points 1 year ago

70 years of negotiating yet isnreal still doing slow rolling ethnic cleansing. Support one state solution then dipshit

[–] Bloobish@hexbear.net 22 points 1 year ago

That is nuclear waste tier of shit takes coming from Zizek

[–] batsforpeace@hexbear.net 20 points 1 year ago

cool, I read the first 3 words and got everything I needed from it, another careerist fence sitter

[–] cosecantphi@hexbear.net 20 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

Can someone explain to me why r/chapotraphouse seemed to fucking love this guy? Everything I hear from Zizek makes me think less and less of him

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[–] DrCrustacean@hexbear.net 18 points 1 year ago

Tired of this guy

[–] Tachanka@hexbear.net 18 points 1 year ago

Azov Zizek strikes again

[–] Pluto@hexbear.net 17 points 1 year ago

"Yes, honey..."

[–] FakeNewsForDogs@hexbear.net 17 points 1 year ago

Don't even know what to say about this guy anymore. I'm not going to read this whole thing, but the excerpt sounds like a generic western lib op-ed. Is this just what he does now? Goddamn, dude. Either his brain is cooked or he's on the CIA payroll now.

[–] bubbalu@hexbear.net 17 points 1 year ago

Say it with me everyone! Postmodernists have nothing of value to contribute to theory or revolutionary action.

[–] UlyssesT@hexbear.net 16 points 1 year ago
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