How do you declare war on a state you don’t recognize?
this post was submitted on 08 Oct 2023
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Ask "Drugs."
Also "Terror."
I had a scary dream last night but America didn’t invade Iraq over it.
Try having an oily dream, they'll be on you in a minute
Not sure if you're trying to be clever? You can start a war against anyone or anything.
...take the War on Christmas, for example
You can attack anyone or anything but formal declarations of war are usually state actions.
I guess I’m partly being clever and pointing out that Israel is waving this word “war” around very generously right now, because they’re always dramatizing the direness of their situation, mainly for the American audience. But technically they shouldn’t be using this word unless they recognize the state of Palestine, which they have historically refused to do.
So, as usual, they’re trying to have it both ways.
I'm not sure I understand. Does war declaration being a state action require recognition the state of Palestine? Or can they declare war on "Hamas" or any other entity/group of people. Or do they even have to state who they are at war against? Can they just say "we are at war"?
I can't read the article (I just get an HTTP 403 "Forbidden", interesting) but Israel had previously talked about declaring war on Hamas itself.
This isnt a gotcha. Israel does not recognize the legitimacy of the Palestinian state, but they don't like, pretend it doesn't nominally exist. If Hamas considers themselves a legitimate government, they can be declared war against. They're not legitimate, but they still exist.
As an easy example in the US, everyone in the country doubted the legitimacy of the "Autonomous Zone" in Portland, and yet it very definitely was a thing.
Invade Crimea?
It's a not-so-civil war, if you will
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Wonderful. Now we have two wars that just happen to rile up needless political grandstanding for the uninvolved to fight over, so we wont have to think about the millions of innocents killed in the fighting.
We don’t get many declarations of war these days. Usually they are just special military actions, or security operations, or something like that. What makes this different?
Probably something about an outright attack against civilians for literally no fucking reason..... ya know just "gotta not let them kill us" kinda reasons?
There's also a decent chance they actually have some sort of government structure that doesnt allow military spending of certain types without a declaration of war.
Wait, you think there is "no fucking reason" that Hamas exists and is doing what they're doing?
what is their goal if not to bring harm to civilians
they arent powerful enough to fight. some dumbass religious cause doesnt matter because their religion is fake they are fighting for a dick size contest and hamas has a micropenis, yet is still antagonizing.
i hate israel but frankly hamas is really trying to lose support rn
Israel is constantly catastrophizing their situation to win sympathy and demonize their enemy. Usually they try to avoid this kind of language because, being the only ones with an organized military, it would be a bad look to be at war with a bunch of refugees. But since they’ve been attacked they’re doing everything they can to paint that attack in the most bombastic terms possible 1) to win sympathy and 2) to justify the military devastation they are about to unleash on a civilian population.
Following our decades-long invasion of Palestine and continually calling for Palestine's removal and the genocide of the Palestinian people, we are now calling it war.
Damn, maybe palestine should have accepted the two state plan in 1947 instead of trying to eliminate all Israeli Jews at the time.
Israel accepted it. Palestine started killing civilians. Then got their asses handed to them repeatedly.
You have to understand though, prior to the UN proposal, it was all just Palestine. Why should the Palestinians have accepted a UN (foreign, primarily western at the time) proposal to give half of their land to a minority who only began immigrating there en masse in the last 50 years? This was the period of decolonization, and while the rest of the Arab world and Africa was gaining their independence, Palestine was just getting a new map drawn on them by their western colonizers.
It’s easy to say with another 70 years of perspective that it didn’t work out for them, but in 1947 Israel was nothing more than an idea championed by a minority of religious extremists, viewed as terrorists even in the west.
Prior to the UN proposal it was a British territory. Before that it was part of the Ottoman Empire.
Palestine has never existed as an independent state.
Correct. However it was never israels. Can we at least agree on that?
Depends on how long you go back. It was Israel/Judea for over 1000 years before the Arab Conquest forced Jews to be scattered to the winds in the first place.
Wow, how gracious of israel, with the backing of the most powerful militaries in the world arrayed against a country without significant military allies, to nominally agree to a two-state plan and then for 75 years violate treaties, kill civilians and constantly invade the other state that essentially can't fight back.
Super brave of them to constantly show force with the US military backing them.
I'm sure Israel appreciates you admiring their genocide.
what if u were israel
should israel just let palestine attack and have israel intentionally hold back the fact they are much more powerful? if you poke a bear and get mauled do we blame the bear?
in america we would likely blame the bear but folks dont get consequences now.
Wow all over the wrong map. No, in American wildlife conservation and training, the wild animal is not blamed because humans have the ability to plan and reason and animals have an extremely limited ability to plan and reason and are practically only able to react.
You compare Israel to a mindless beast without the ability to plan or reason, ignoring that Israel has been invading Palestine for 75 years, carrying out a obvious territorial expansion "plan" according to their"reason"(I want it and I am stronger than you).
You're incorrect that Israel is doing this as mindless reactionaries, But you're probably making that assumption because as an American you are trained to be reactionary and hold knee-jerk reactions in high regard.
A bunch of Saudi Arabians bombed your New York! Quick, let's invade several unrelated countries! How reasonable. What a good plan. 80% approval ratings.
This declaration of war, if followed through, is a continuation of the systematic territorial invasion and execution of Palestinian civilians that has been going on for most of a century.
It's just going to happen faster now.
It's a shame humanity hasn't learned more from the last century, this one wasn't supposed to be a sequel.
War continues but the scale really is miniscule compared to the 1900s.
26,000 American soldiers died in 36 days of fighting on Iwo Jima.
1900 Americans were killed in 20 years in Afghanistan.
I don’t minimize any deaths here, but the direction the numbers are going in gives me hope for the future, not despair.
The post 9/11 wars resulted in the deaths of nearly 1 million people
Yes civilian deaths were higher. But military deaths are able to be counted more reliably so they are easier to compare.
Estimates are that 38 million civilians died in WW2, so there you go. That number is way higher too.
Oh so if you just don't count civilians your original statement seems true. I'm sure the million dead are consoled by that.
Nearly half of those are civilians... war sucks no matter how we look at it.
Always is.
This seems like a really unevenly weighted war. Israel has nukes and is supported by most of the west. Vengeance and violence are also never a good mix so this will likely get ugly fast. It'll be interesting to see where the line is, if it exists at all, on how much violence the West will publicly support.
So their mass murder of civilians will now be under the guise of a war. Sigh
404?
Nope
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