this post was submitted on 24 Sep 2023
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Elon lied about the monkeys — and he shouldn't be trusted to put his Neuralink chips in human brains.

"They are claiming they are going to put a safe device on the market, and that's why you should invest," Ryan Merkley at the Physicians Committee, told Wired. "And we see his lie as a way to whitewash what happened in these exploratory studies."

Really heartbreaking reading what happened to the monkeys.

People quite rightly think of Elizabeth Holmes as a fraud for making false medical claims about what the Theranos machines could do. So why aren't Elon's claims at Neuralink being held to the same level of scrutiny?

https://futurism.com/neoscope/terrible-things-monkeys-neuralink-implants

@technology #Elon #Neuralink #ElonMusk

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[–] Holyginz@lemmy.world 200 points 1 year ago (7 children)

anyone letting elon put a chip in their brain is a moron.

[–] lemmylommy@lemmy.world 72 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Or desperate. Forget the investors, Elon lied to those who saw it as a last ditch effort to beat their diseases.

[–] Holyginz@lemmy.world 23 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ah damn I didn't think of that. I feel for them, but elon is the last person they should trust for that. I don't honestly know who they should trust these days. But techbros aren't one of them.

[–] ShaggySnacks@lemmy.myserv.one 9 points 1 year ago

As a general rule of thumb, you should trust that a tech bro will con you by taking a normal idea and throwing around a bunch techno jargon to make it seem like cutting edge technology.

[–] naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com 26 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Yup. You have to be a special kind of trusting to allow a company to modify your brain.

Banal attempts at mind control, crude as they are, are bad enough already.

[–] Holyginz@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Honestly, interface chips in our brains would be a logical step at some point in the future. But hell would need to freeze, then thaw, then freeze over again before I trust anything of elons being inserted in my brain.

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[–] meowomon@mindly.social 14 points 1 year ago

@Holyginz @ajsadauskas

It's the same people who think the covid vaccine puts a microchip in them. Go figure.

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[–] Lmaydev@programming.dev 148 points 1 year ago (10 children)

Let's not pretend Musk has fucking clue what's going on or the science behind it.

He isn't down in trenches making discoveries. That's just the image he presents.

He buys companies and lets the actually competent people do the work while claiming credit.

He's been doing it since PayPal.

He's not a genius, he just has enough money to get actual geniuses to work for him.

[–] maegul@lemmy.ml 77 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Someone put it well, if insensitively, about Sam Bankman Fried (FTX etc):

Not actually smart but just LARP-ing the “Aspy genius” persona.

However accurate that take is or offensive, I think it captures something about how nerd culture has gone mainstream and how it’s perceived.

[–] _number8_@lemmy.world 29 points 1 year ago (1 children)

'nerd' has disappeared as an insult now that we're all on the computer all the time

[–] TheMauveAvenger@lemmy.world 23 points 1 year ago (1 children)

As The Boys lovingly put it so many years ago, "nerds is cool now and jocks is pumping our gas."

[–] Lmaydev@programming.dev 15 points 1 year ago

I think that's pretty romanticised.

Assuming they leave their home town many end up in sales or similar making really good money.

[–] kent_eh@lemmy.ca 26 points 1 year ago

He buys companies and lets the actually competent people do the work while claiming credit.

Sometimes he actively interferes with those competent people too.

[–] Piers@beehaw.org 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

He buys companies and lets the actually competent people do the work while claiming credit.

No he doesn't. He meddles and interferes constantly and convinces himself that he's adding value by doing so. That's why Neuralink is dangerous. Meta or Alphabet or Microsoft or whoever can be trusted to let the scientists and the legal team ensure there's very little risk of everything blowing up in their face horribly. Elon's little empire is constantly on the verge of an absolute disaster. I would not be remotely surprised if Neuralink messes everything up so much that it sets back brain implants and BCI's in general by decades. Purely because Elon can't just supply the people at his businesses with the tools they need then get out of their way.

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[–] HughJanus@lemmy.ml 67 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Remember that time Elon said he totally was not going to ban a single specific person when he bought Twitter and then turned around and did exactly that just a few days later?

[–] PetrichorLove@mastodon.social 11 points 1 year ago

@HughJanus @ajsadauskas and I adore your name, Hugh

[–] raymccarthy@historians.social 66 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

@ajsadauskas @technology
I was astounded to read Neuralink is to be permitted to experiment on humans. Instead they should have any animal experiment licences revoked.

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[–] Spzi@lemm.ee 61 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Headline:

TERRIBLE THINGS HAPPENED TO MONKEYS AFTER GETTING NEURALINK IMPLANTS, ACCORDING TO VETERINARY RECORDS

What are these terrible things?

Up to a dozen monkeys suffered grisly fates after receiving a Neuralink implant, including brain swelling and partial paralysis.

First is the case of the monkey "Animal 20." In December 2019, an internal part of the brain implant being inserted into the primate "broke off" during surgery. Later that night, the monkey scratched at the implant site, drawing blood, and yanked on the implant, partially dislodging it. Follow-up surgery discovered that the wound was infected, but that the placement of the implant prevented treatment. The monkey was euthanized the next month.

Before that, a female monkey designated "Animal 15" began to press her head against the ground after receiving the brain implant, pick at the site until it bled, and eventually lost coordination, shivering when personnel entered the room. Scientists discovered she had brain bleeding, and in March 2019, she too was euthanized.

The following year, a primate called "Animal 22" was put down in March 2020 after its brain implant became so loose that the screws attaching it to the skull "could easily be lifted out," according to a necropsy report.

"The failure of this implant can be considered purely mechanical and not exacerbated by infection," the necropsy states.

As Wired notes, that statement alone seemingly contradicts Musk's claims that no monkeys directly died from Neuralink brain implants.

And so would the account of an ex-Neuralink employee, who told Wired that Musk's claims that the monkeys were already terminally ill are "ridiculous," even a "straight-up fabrication."

"We had these monkeys for a year or so before any surgery was performed," the ex-employee said.

The testimony of an anonymous scientist conducting research at CNPRC seems to corroborate the ex-employee's allegations.

"These are pretty young monkeys," they told the magazine. "It's hard to imagine these monkeys, who were not adults, were terminal for some reason."

[–] worldsayshi@lemmy.world 26 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

Not only are monkeys as intelligent as small kids. All monkey species are at least a thousand times as rare as humans.

These experiments sound like they've been done by people who don't know what they're doing?

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[–] notabird@lemmy.world 49 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Elon fanboys should be lining up to try this, right?

[–] Saneless@lemmy.world 37 points 1 year ago

Yeah, the dumbest and worst people will be dying to get this. I don't see a problem

[–] lightnsfw@reddthat.com 9 points 1 year ago

Which is why I'm totally okay with it being allowed. If you're stupid enough to get one then maybe we don't need you around anymore.

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[–] MiddledAgedGuy@beehaw.org 39 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Whenever I see these Musk posts, I always think the title can usually be reduced to 3 or 4 words. In this case, "Elon shouldn't be trusted".

[–] BaconIsAVeg@lemmy.ml 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Whenever I see these Musk posts, I always marvel at how people seem to think one man builds spaceships, programs self-driving cars, pushes all the buttons on Twitter, and does all the research himself on monkeys.

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'Elon CAN'T be trusted.'

[–] morningrise@lemmy.ml 29 points 1 year ago

I think Elmo should just volunteer himself.

[–] Stuka@lemmy.ml 27 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I feel like this is all a given. How they're legally able to proceed with human testing is just baffling to me.

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[–] Auzy@beehaw.org 24 points 1 year ago

Rather than admit his crappy submarine wouldn't work after an expert diver told him, he called them a pedophile.

You'd be insane to listen to a guy who publicly refuses to listen to advice

[–] TrismegistusMx@lemmy.world 24 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Elon is already dreaming up ways to blame his human test subjects for his failures after they die horrifically from infections, brain bleeds, seizures, and psychosis.

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[–] SouthEndSunset@lemm.ee 23 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Doesnt that guy lie about everything?

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[–] Jeramee@mastodon.social 20 points 1 year ago

@ajsadauskas @technology

Elon has a history of lying that's as rich as he was before he bought Twitter.

[–] drekly@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago (4 children)

What's going on with all these @ tags

[–] Muun@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago (4 children)
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[–] some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 16 points 1 year ago

He's a lying piece of shit. Full stop.

[–] rood@aus.social 16 points 1 year ago (2 children)

@ajsadauskas @technology I was just going to ask the Theranos/Holmes question.

[–] jonne@infosec.pub 9 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Once he'll start losing investors' money his lies will catch up to him. Nobody's asking questions as long as line goes up.

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[–] Aviandelight@mander.xyz 8 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Theranos went down because Holmes was trying to run the same tired start-up scam all the big boys pull but within the confines of the medical industry. She would have succeeded if she had picked something non medical. The FDA doesn't fuck around. If Elon thinks he's smart enough to pull the same shit he's going to "find out" too.

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[–] PeckerBrown@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Chip Elon and put him through what he put the monkeys through. Same conditions.

[–] PizzasDontWearCapes@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Chip him and send him to Mars.

Make him drive to the launchpad in a Model X on full "auto pilot" too

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[–] clutchmatic@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I say let him do that and then let congress legislate this once the grim details of how the human subjects died creates a scandal and political unity across the aisle. It's the American Way®

[–] 1847953620@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I'm not keen on letting people die just to test how much that level of money can minimize consequences

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[–] antigravy@universeodon.com 11 points 1 year ago

@ajsadauskas @technology
We should have stopped Dr Evil before he got his phony doctorate.

[–] noondlyt@mastodon.social 11 points 1 year ago

@ajsadauskas @autolycos @technology Because he has the most money. Because any who should hold him accountable have their hand in his pocket. Because he has government contracts with every single one of his businesses. He is a monster created by those who are supposed to protect us from the monsters. It is not remotely possible to control him. He is the worst case scenario.

[–] trelord75@aus.social 8 points 1 year ago (5 children)

@ajsadauskas @technology

That's horrible, and also confirms what I said just the other day, who would trust him putting an implant in your brain, not me, and I already have brain damage.

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[–] InterSynth@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 1 year ago

This is literally Ryujin Industries.

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