this post was submitted on 23 Sep 2023
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[–] McScience 121 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

Or just be me, WFH and never leave the house

[–] Pheonixdown@lemm.ee 44 points 1 year ago

If only employers cared. It has been nice, now my employer is rolling out a arbitrary but mandatory 4 days return to office policy. In like 8 years of employment I never needed to be there that much. Whatever, 100% remote job market looks decent for me, hopefully find a better place soon.

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[–] frezik@midwest.social 115 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Most of the criticisms that come from the right are solvable problems, such as lack of chargers, electricity coming from dirty sources, or lithium mining. We pretty much know how to solve all those at this point. Just a matter of doing it.

Criticisms that come from the left tend to be more fundamental. Things like car-based cities being too spread out, infrastructure costs spiraling out of control, or having the average person operate a 2 ton vehicle at speeds over 60mph and expecting this to be safe. None of those are specific to EVs, and are only solvable by looking at different transportation options.

[–] NaibofTabr@infosec.pub 47 points 1 year ago

But solving problems costs money! We need to be transferring those dollars to our wealthy donors, not spending them on public improvements!

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[–] johnthedoe@lemmy.ml 76 points 1 year ago (10 children)

I tell people yes do get an EV for your next car. But also use this chance to really think about if you need the car at all. Or does every adult in the household need a car each. Our city is trash for everyone having to own a car.

Best is to run your car to the ground. Then get an EV if you must own a car.

[–] Lintson@aussie.zone 27 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Unfortunately mass transit that works for everyone is the enemy of vehicle manufacturers.

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[–] drdalek13@lemmy.ml 15 points 1 year ago (6 children)

If I could guarantee that my job is remote forever, or have it written in my contract, I would sell my car.

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[–] andy_wijaya_med@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago (16 children)

Live in a not so small town in Germany. I haven't had the need to have a car after I have been living for 9 years.

I commute with bike to work, take public transport when it's a farther journey.

Until I have a daughter a couple of months ago. I realize that I really need a car. :(

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[–] Goodtoknow@lemmy.ca 74 points 1 year ago (15 children)

People don't want to change the status quo or inconvenience themselves slightly in any way for the greater good. People want a magic drop in replacement that magically "fixes/solves" the environmental crisis and allows life to continue on as is. (So they don't have to take "yucky" public transit)

What really needs to be known though is life has to somewhat drastically change so we can make the world a healthier place for generations to come in the future.

[–] scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech 49 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You're being downvoted because you're right. I've had people argue that EVs still aren't a good alternative because they may require a bit more effort every once in a while. Like, charging for 30 minutes at a charger on a long road trip vs just gassing up. Other than that they are pretty much a drop in alternative and people still balk at them.

Then trying to get them to use public transit instead? Doesn't even matter if it's more convenient, they're stuck in their ways and will refuse to change ever.

Get out of your ruts people. Just because "this is the way things are" doesn't mean it's the best way. Ffs the amount of midwesterners who come to my city to visit and think we're being "unsafe" by using the train, just get out of your mindsets.

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[–] Fried_out_Kombi@lemmy.world 25 points 1 year ago (2 children)

What's kinda funny is we already have a mode of public transit almost everybody, even those who drive everywhere, use: elevators. Buses, trains, etc. are only seen as "yucky" because most people (at least in America) don't use them and refuse to spend their tax dollars on them, leaving them to be used primarily by the poor and desperate. But when you have public transit that is used by everybody, like elevators, you find they're well-funded and well-kept, and absolutely no one will bat an eye about having to use it.

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[–] MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 51 points 1 year ago (12 children)

I'm entertained by the fact that everyone gets hung up on how EVs are still not totally green because the electricity comes from coal fired plants or that there's still manufacturing emissions and stuff....

It's like, yeah, but compared to an ICE car, which has all the same problems (environmental cost of manufacturing the vehicle, mining and refining the fuel, transporting it, etc) but EVs don't actively pollute nearly as much during use, and they speak as if these are of equal environmental cost, and they're not. Additionally, ICE vehicles need a lot more oil to operate that needs to be changed and disposed of every few thousand miles.

It's like doing less harm isn't valuable to the people arguing against it, but then again, those are probably the same people who drive their V8 truck to get groceries.

[–] vithigar@lemmy.ca 28 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Plus there are plenty of people, like myself, who live in areas where the electricity comes from mostly renewable sources.

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[–] grue@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

It’s like, yeah, but compared to an ICE car, which has all the same problems (environmental cost of manufacturing the vehicle, mining and refining the fuel, transporting it, etc) but EVs don’t actively pollute nearly as much during use, and they speak as if these are of equal environmental cost, and they’re not. Additionally, ICE vehicles need a lot more oil to operate that needs to be changed and disposed of every few thousand miles.

None of that is the real problem with electric cars.

The real problem with electric cars is that they're still cars, which means they embody the same arrogance of space as regular cars. In other words, they take up too much space -- both while driving and while parked -- physically forcing trip origins and destinations further apart and ruining the city not only for pedestrians, cyclists and transit riders, but even also for the drivers themselves.

(That last link is from the perspective of a car enthusiast, by the way.)

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[–] pingveno@lemmy.ml 19 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Also, charging from the electrical grid means EV's immediately get future improvements in CO2 usage when the grid improves its mix of power sources.

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[–] KeenFlame@feddit.nu 34 points 1 year ago (2 children)

That argument will be thrown at every god damn step we make towards a better planet. It's not valid.

[–] drkt@feddit.dk 25 points 1 year ago (18 children)

Electric cars will not save the planet. Electric cars will save the car industry.

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[–] Karyoplasma@discuss.tchncs.de 15 points 1 year ago (3 children)

The problem is that the real way to cut down on emissions would be to accept that not every good can be available at any time and that's a bitter pill to swallow.

We have tuna caught in South America, hauled to Thailand for canning and hauled back to the US to be sold. Turns more profit than local catches because the megacorporations can save a couple bucks on worker salaries. And that is just an example, it's not just the food industry, hauling shit to hell and back and back to hell and back is common practice.

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[–] Nioxic@lemmy.dbzer0.com 32 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (15 children)

Public transport is awesome..

It just doesnt always go where everyone needs to go

Bikes are great right until you have to do large grocery shopping or get to a place far away.

I cant do without a car where i live.

[–] Liz@midwest.social 36 points 1 year ago (2 children)

You live in a place designed around cars, that's the problem. Society worked fine without cars for a good long while. We could have adopted trains, bikes, and buses without the car and things would be going swimmingly. The idea is to fix our bad town planning so that it's reasonable to get to any destination using any mode if transportation.

[–] Polar@lemmy.ca 16 points 1 year ago (5 children)

You live in a place designed around cars, that’s the problem.

Exactly. Then Europeans downvote people who say they need a car, because their country/city/state/whatever has terrible planning or public transit.

Not my fault I need a car. Stop blaming me. I didn't design the city. I didn't plan where the public transit will go.

Do you really think I love paying $1200+ per year for insurance, $120+ per week for fuel, and $20,000-80,000 for a new vehicle when mine borks itself?

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[–] grue@lemmy.world 26 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Bikes are great right until you have to do large grocery shopping

That's only because we're doing it wrong.

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[–] bestnerd@lemmy.world 31 points 1 year ago (3 children)

If I could hop on a train from the country side or ride my bike 20m on a dirt road or ice and winter to get to a store I’d be happy but that’s not happening

[–] sexy_peach@feddit.de 15 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Could happen soon, has happened before in most places.

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[–] jaybone@lemmy.world 24 points 1 year ago (16 children)

But I can’t put a 75” TV and a 48 pack of Pepsi on the back of a bike duh.

[–] icedcoffee@lemm.ee 14 points 1 year ago

This is my usual trip to the store so I feel your pain!

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[–] PelicanPersuader@beehaw.org 21 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It would be great if our public transit system in the US was funded enough to actually be useful for more than just occasional, highly specific trips.

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[–] pascal@lemm.ee 20 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I remember saying it about 10 years ago:

You can see the culture shock in how progress works across different countries:

Japan, let's build a shockingly fast and quiet train! USA, here's an electric car that drives itself.

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[–] Facebones@reddthat.com 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (14 children)

Imagine if all the posting just to shit on biking and public transit just rode a bike or something instead of sucking on a tailpipe for dear fucking life.

Blocking anybody who has to argue in bad faith, I have better things to do with my time then listen to your disengenuous bullshit.

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[–] BonesOfTheMoon@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago

I bus nearly everywhere but I'm lucky I'm in a city and have access to transit. Build more transit!

[–] jollyrogue@lemmy.ml 13 points 1 year ago (6 children)

This reminds me, I need to work on getting a bike.

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