this post was submitted on 17 Dec 2024
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Fedigrow

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I noticed today an occurence of a user complaining about Lemmy being worse then Reddit. The modlogs shows how toxic they are. When this was pointed out, the user deletes their account

https://web.archive.org/web/20241217101003/https://sopuli.xyz/post/20276017?scrollToComments=true

Deleted account: https://kbin.melroy.org/u/Pyrin

This seems to address the question that comes up once in a while "a public modlog is only useful for mods" (https://feddit.org/post/4920887/3235141), while we can see from this example that it can also be useful for toxic users.

As you may know, !yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com is a community dedicated to calling out power tripping mods.

Should we consider having a similar community for toxic users?

There is already !fediverselore@lemmy.ca, but I feel like the "lore" is more about large-scale events (like the cats wave recently) than specific users events.

Edit: Updated the title, and put the emphasis on creating a community to call out toxic users rather than "dunking" on the users that was banned.

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[–] missingno@fedia.io 14 points 6 days ago

A community dedicated to getting mad at people will quickly become just as toxic, if not more so.

[–] IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

I think its not a great idea.

Mods are like politicians, they need to be held accountable. Users are like the citizens/residents, if someone did something wrong, there should be judgement by the "court system" or in case of an online forum, judged by moderators. A civillian not involved in politics (aka: doing forum moderation) shouldn't face as much scrutiny as a politician.

We protest when politicians do bad things. But we don't form a mob and go to a civillian's house to harass them when they do bad things, that just brings the pitfork mob mentality. A user who isn't doing moderation shouldn't have to face a mob, such a community is just gonna become a place to harass users.

TLDR: Moderators should face more scrutiny than users. Users shouldn't have to face a mob's judgement everytime whenever there's perceived wrongdoing.

[–] lvxferre@mander.xyz 8 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Should we consider having a similar community for toxic users?

I think that it's a bad idea because that community would become a pitchfork emporium. Users posting there would be a textbook example of users that we shouldn't want in the Fediverse: whiny, entitled, assumptive, passive aggressive. It's how the cookie crumbles with this sort of meta-community.

To avoid that, you'd need to restrict the scope and make it objective, like !yepowertrippinbastards does - that comm is only about mods/admins acting as such and abusing their power.

[–] Blaze@feddit.org 3 points 6 days ago
[–] TheObviousSolution@lemm.ee 7 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

The problem is, you only would see the content that was removed. It is also extremely one sided. The modlog isn't what it was, and now they have removed legitimacy from it by removing the names of the mods and admins who did the enforcement, even though it was already relatively easy and straightforward to create a moderation alt. So you don't get the visibility of any moderator abuse either. There's also the fact that moderators and admins do lie.

A community dedicated to calling out power tripping mods exists because it affects everybody and there is no moderator of moderator decisions, save for admins who, if not part of the problem also have other problems to deal with. There is no power tripping user because users basically have no power. The counter to yepowertrippingbastards for users already exists, it's called being a moderator, and they get to "post" about it in a modlog where their and only their word gets posted, where they are allowed to do it anonymously under the cover of seeming but not actual unanimity, and where users don't get a chance to tell their side of the story. Mods also have their own internal groups to address concerns of problem users.

Having a public community about it both makes those moderators who participate seem even more insecure and would also be a source of drama as they try to create a new version of the modlog in community form while finding out communities are not homogeneous.

[–] socsa@piefed.social 6 points 6 days ago (3 children)

Lemmy is worse than reddit though. Especially if you don't block .ml.

Though they have predictably gotten quieter now that the election is over.

[–] lvxferre@mander.xyz 3 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Which is worse depends a lot on how much you weight each of their flaws. Personally I think that Lemmy still behaves better than Reddit, even considering that Lemmy behaviour is getting worse over time.

So, focusing solely on aspects where Lemmy is worse than Reddit, IMO:

  • witch hunting
  • intrusive soapboxing
  • bossing others around with uncalled advice
[–] sunzu2@thebrainbin.org 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

intrusive soapboxing

Wut dis

[–] lvxferre@mander.xyz 5 points 6 days ago (1 children)

TL;DR: to repetitively talk about certain really common topics outside their place, specially political ones, so all popular threads end being about the same subjects.

NTL;R: Soapboxing is when someone keeps voicing their opinion on something, to gather support. It's fine on itself, or it would if lemmings didn't do it all the bloody time, even outside the place for that discussion. It becomes intrusive.

So for example. There are 99 threads talking about Musk/USA/Trump stuff, and 1 to share cat pictures. Then someone mentions that the orange cat has the same colour as Trump's hair. Vooooooosh! Now the thread is infested with "Trump is evil! Trump is nazi! I HAET TRUMP!". They are intrusively soapboxing their hate against Trump. And now we got 100 threads about Musk/USA/Trump stuff and zero to share cat pictures.

When this happens you'll sometimes see people reacting. "Can we post cat pics here? Could you please keep politics out of this thread? Pleeeease?" style. Then you're bound to get some braindead trash vomiting "ackshyually everything is politics". That is technically correct but utterly idiotic in that context, and effectively conveys "I'm entitled to ruin your thread with this repetitive subject, suck it up".

This happens fairly often in Reddit. But since Lemmy has a more political userbase (not a bad thing per se), here it's all the time. And it usually takes mod intervention to not happen.

[–] Elevator7009sAlt@ani.social 2 points 6 days ago

Okay, so now I have a word for this behavior, thanks.

I've managed to avoid seeing it too often but that's also through probably getting lucky with tiny, focused communities and only looking at Subscribed (sometimes Local on certain instances—ani.social has been "safe" for avoiding politics in my opinion). And outright refusing meme communities not because I have an issue with memes but because there's usually a depressing "relatable" one where unfortunately yammering about the cause behind that depressing thing is on-topic, and usually attributed to something political.

I do content discovery through trawling through the community list on an instance and picking something cool and following !newcommunities@lemmy.world. For people who don't want to mostly take a "my interests only, everything else can be safely ignored" attitude, or whose interests involve topics that frequently intersect with politics (imagine being into tech, seeing on-topic tech news that… also has political implications or directly talks politics), I'm just really sorry for you right now.

[–] Freefall@lemmy.world 2 points 6 days ago (1 children)

They do as the CCP demands.

[–] antib1rchturd@lemmy.cafe -5 points 6 days ago

Worldists are neoliberals genocide apologists, they censor as much shit as any "tankie" instance and if there was any justice the mods would be in jail.

[–] antib1rchturd@lemmy.cafe 1 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

I'm not trolling about the elections these days, maybe that's because my frontpage isn't 100% trump-related spam. I don't care about the US, why should I be exposed to you people cultural imperialism? Keep that shit to yourself.

It was hillarious to see dumb americans astro-turfing the lemmyverse with their election bullcrap, only to be exposed to opinion from foreigners and then whining that everybody you don't like is a russian spy. Follow the western neo-lib line or get called Igor (yeah coz they're also racists).

But hey, count on the idiots to passively eat cold-war era propaganda.

[–] Freefall@lemmy.world 3 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

1.) NOWHERE is worse than reddit mods. They can diaf.

B.) I love the modlog. Half the time I have to go "what the hell did I say to get deleted?!" and dredging it up to see what I said and the reason, which is usually "rule 5" or the like. I also like seeing deleted posts responding to mine that got deleted before I read them. Half the time they didn't say anything particularly bad towards me, just used a bad word or went off topic.

LASTLY.) Any changes that keep mods and admins out of dictatorial power is perfect. I got banned on Reddit for "being racist" because I called out criminals and some other jackasses were saying "black people" as the word "criminal" even though the crimes were in a predominantly white area so it was a bad assumption from the start. I have a black GF and my post history has ZERO racist comments or remarks. I asked the mod and they said it was because I was a racist like everyone else getting banned and blocked me and reported me for harassing them. I appealed it to the reddit admins, they did nothing and said the mod was in the right and i started getting banned in other subs for nonsense, only to find out from others they all share a couple mods...of note, this is how it went down, this isn't me editing the story in my favor, it was exactly that absurd and blatant...don't let Lemmy become THAT bullshit.

[–] chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 6 days ago

This idea sounds conceptually similar to something like kiwifarms, which seems like a red flag imo

[–] Corgana@startrek.website -1 points 6 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

Calling out mods for what? Not allowing your brand of freeze peach? Personally I think Lemmy needs more strong moderators because right now most instance's "all" feeds are just another stale parade of "memes". There is a lot of junk filler, and very few unique communities that make the Lemmyverse something that stands apart from Reddit.

I would also encourage instance admins to de-federate instances that host your idea of a "community" purpose built to publicly "call out" users. It's toxic.

[–] Blaze@feddit.org 2 points 6 days ago (1 children)

How is your instance doing ?

Why I left Startrek.website, created TenForward, and the admin abuse I've suffered from ST.W since then

https://lemmy.world/post/11959030

Also, about the mods, that community already exists, it's !yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com

[–] Corgana@startrek.website 3 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

That user was literally banned from StarTrek.website instance for harassment of it's users, this is a textbook example of the problem with "call out" communities you are advocating for. They are more about creating drama than any kind of fact finding, let alone justice.

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 33 points 1 week ago (6 children)

Do we really need to do public shaming?

[–] Blaze@feddit.org 10 points 1 week ago (6 children)

You're not the first one to point it out, maybe I should remove this post.

To answer your question, as I said in another comment, I wanted to use this example for when people ask “how does a public modlog make Lemmy better than Reddit”, which is a question that comes up quite once in a while: https://feddit.org/post/4920887/3235141

We also public shame mods all the time on !yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com, no sure why potential trolls could not be called out too.

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 12 points 1 week ago (2 children)

the power tripping bastards community often goes off the rails and becomes a hate fest, many many many times, people just go there to relitigate and rage, and the brigading gets out of hand.

A few times we identify a real mod issue, but the current format is chaotic

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[–] asudox@discuss.tchncs.de 27 points 1 week ago (1 children)

That's a great example of a toxic redditor coming to the fediverse hoping people would tolerate his behaviour, but surprise surprise:

we don't

...and gets banned lol.

[–] Blaze@feddit.org 14 points 1 week ago

They didn't even get banned (except from SJW, but that's only one instance), I think they just deleted their account

[–] Alice@hilariouschaos.com 14 points 1 week ago

I think yall are way to extreme and maybe need to take a break from the internet every so often. It's not healthy to be This indepth hardcore wanting to almost kinda dox ppl bc you didn't, ahem... appreciate their tone. Pretty pretentious. But anyway

We have an annoying lemmy users community where you can basically call users out, but the main rule is to mark out their username, instance name, all instances showing and community name. But to expose who they are also?

Number one you'd be making enemies and Secondly, you'd be making lemmy even more hostile then it already is. Which disincentivizes activity and engagement.

HC has an ask an admin community, annoying lemmy users community, and mod and admin complaints community. Which i think apply here, but highly doubtful anyone will use for the purposes stated in the post.

In short,

I think just taking a lemmy break, and breaking away from the internet drama is the best way to go here. The more you get involved, you might be fuckin with the wrong person and that'll blow up in your face.

I take breaks from lemmy all the time. I feel it's almost necessary in order to continue to use the platform, bc of how toxic, hostile, and extremist the online community is. I don't have time nor desire to drag my mental health into the mud fighting, arguing, and playing gotcha games on the internet.

I value my time and health more then that

[–] hono4kami@piefed.social 13 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (20 children)

No

I don't think we need that kinda community anymore, pretty sure we already have similar community

I agree that some Lemmy users are annoying and as bad as Reddit. But, man, if you behave like that, you're no better lol, in fact worse.

I agree with @OpenStars@piefed.social, I started using recently PieFed and even contributed to the code, and PieFed seems to have a good feature specific to this case, like reputation points (though I have a feeling this could also be abused?)

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[–] rtxn@lemmy.world 12 points 1 week ago

Bro looked in the mirror and got such a hard whiplash he astral-projected into a parallel universe where he's a paragon of virtue

[–] squirrel@discuss.tchncs.de 11 points 1 week ago (3 children)
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[–] hmmm@sh.itjust.works 9 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

LMFAO

Because your obnoxious obliviousness makes light on the idea of piracy. Like you expect it to hold your hand in every step of the way. Plus, I am overwhelmingly tired of people like you with that kind of attitude. You’re the kind of pirate that downloads and barely learns. The ones always asking if they need a VPN for the thousandth time when we’ve told you for the thousandth time and more, that you do. So, no, I do not have to treat you with kindness. Enjoy the block. Keep raining those petty downvotes of yours for all I care.

If someone is asking me about same Piracy Question. I am gonna tell them 1000 times. Because I was also noob at some point.

[–] drspod@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 week ago (8 children)

Fedigrow:

To discuss how to grow and manage communities / magazines on Lemmy, Mbin, Piefed and Sublinks

How is this post relevant to this community? You posted it here because you're a moderator so you know it won't be removed?

Dunking on someone who was (rightfully) banned isn't the kind of post that fosters good community interactions. The moderation system works, that's great. Can we not give more oxygen to the troll's commentary?

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[–] slazer2au@lemmy.world 7 points 1 week ago

Na, what will it do apart from bringing trolls and other asshats more attention? Attention is what they want.

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