Using ableist language as insults is always bad, even if the words seem innocuous. Some may reference the "euphemism treadmill" to try to justify their behavior, but it's crucial to understand that the treadmill is merely a linguistic observation. It does not exist to normalize ableist behavior.

what is the euphemism treadmill for those who dont want to google

more reading if bored

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[–] inv3r5ion@lemmy.dbzer0.com 62 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

Neurodivergent isn’t an insult…

[–] knightly@pawb.social 39 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

"Cisgender" isn't an insult either, but that doesn't stop Elon Musk and his flunkies from treating it as such.

[–] spujb@lemmy.cafe 10 points 2 weeks ago

mega fax

[–] spujb@lemmy.cafe 16 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (6 children)

correct, it’s not (or shouldn’t be), but it’s being used as one, especially recently!

precontext: i said i could see both sides of some non-important debate. something about whether a community mod should be heavy or light with bans, and i was like, “well it depends on what the motivations and needs are.”

their response to that?

in this post i hope to call attention to the same destructive processes happening to “neurodiverse” as to all the other terms. particularly i want to call out the ableist motivations behind it.

[–] rumschlumpel@feddit.org 40 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

It's an insult because of intent, not because of the word itself, though.

[–] spujb@lemmy.cafe 6 points 2 weeks ago

oh absolutely :) would never disagree with you here 💯💯💯

[–] RandomVideos@programming.dev 11 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

You can use gay, homosexual, homo habilis as insults

That doesnt make these words bad

[–] spujb@lemmy.cafe 11 points 2 weeks ago

precisely? never said otherwise :) to quote another person right in this thread whom i agree with:

It’s an insult because of intent, not because of the word itself, though.

[–] inv3r5ion@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 2 weeks ago (9 children)

Without the context it doesn’t come off as insulting.

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[–] captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works 7 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Not YET!

[–] inv3r5ion@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

With that theory, any word could become an insult.

[–] spujb@lemmy.cafe 4 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

Bingo. I assumed more people understood this, so I apologize for not communicating clearly. Any word can become an insult—with the right people in control. What’s particularly hurtful is seeing words that marginalized or oppressed groups use to describe their own experiences being co-opted and turned into insults, reinforcing their otherness.

It happened with “retard,” as with “idiot,” and so many others. Recently, I’ve seen it happen with more niche phrases (look up “is X acoustic” if you’re unfamiliar). Just the other day, I made a comment that I could see two perspectives on a matter. Instead of simply calling me wrong, someone said, “You must be neurodivergent, you’re so gullible.” In that context, “neurodivergent” was clearly being used as a stand-in for the r-slur.

To be clear, I am not against any language. I’m against the weaponizing of language.

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[–] Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works 45 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

If one of the words needs an asterisk instead of a letter, I don't think all of them are equal...

[–] VerdantSporeSeasoning@lemmy.ca 16 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I have an older family member who is severely mentally disabled and always has been. His medical records diagnosed him as r*tarded. The adults diagnosing him at the time didn't understand enough about mental conditions and their differences when he was a child. So kids like him were diagnosed with that. It did have more 'legitimate' uses than it does in our current context. Doesn't make it good or right, doesn't mean they shouldn't have tried to be more specific either. That legacy leads to now where we have the nuance and resources to do better. I am glad it's more and more relagated to the past as it's consistently been used to dehumanize people.

[–] spujb@lemmy.cafe 8 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

good thing i didn’t say they were all equal :)

[–] Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works 23 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

The euphemism treadmill rather implies we simply load all the meaning and intention on a new word when the old one becomes unacceptable.

But that clearly isn't the case with this series of words. Many of these words have clearly different meanings and different social stigmas, and some are in use at the same time.

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[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 6 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I mean I'd say the asterisk is overdoing it, and that this is mostly because retard isn't used as a medical diagnosis anymore. If it does ever really die expect special needs or another such word to take its place.

[–] spujb@lemmy.cafe 7 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Oftentimes people ask me why I bother using the asterisk at all. And the answer isn’t to pay respect to those who have been othered for their entire lives by this language, or to minimize the chance of a ban from heavyhanded mods. It’s actually to make you upset, specifically.

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[–] Squorlple@lemmy.world 36 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

I’ve been thinking about how we call people “right-handed” and “left-handed” instead of “handedness-typical” and “handedness-divergent”

[–] CubbyTustard@reddthat.com 17 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

sinister used to just mean left handed!

[–] Obi@sopuli.xyz 5 points 2 weeks ago

Didn't know that one, it's a nice one.

[–] spujb@lemmy.cafe 14 points 2 weeks ago

actually GOATED INSIGHT my friend keep it up

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[–] Sivecano@lemmy.dbzer0.com 28 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Idk man, a good chunk of these are just sorta not that associated with their origins anymore. A lot of insults are historically demeaning towards certain groups (especially poor people).

[–] spujb@lemmy.cafe 13 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

as always, act everything considering the window of present you are in. “idiot” means a lot less offense today than it did back in the day.

[–] Sivecano@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 2 weeks ago

Reasonable.

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[–] julianh@lemm.ee 26 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

Interesting. Feels like there's a bit of a paradox, where we need a term to address a group of people who are being "othered," but while that's the case, there will be people who use that term as an insult.

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[–] juliebean@lemm.ee 22 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

today i learned that 'cretin' has ableist origins. just hearing the word, and being completely unaware of its origins, i assumed it had racist origins and was somehow related to the isle of crete.

apparently 'cretinism' is an old-timey word for congenital iodine deficiency syndrome.

[–] spujb@lemmy.cafe 8 points 2 weeks ago

okay wow TIL too! i was just pulling from memory and a few online examples but i never dove into the specific histories of that particular word!

[–] sunbather@beehaw.org 14 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

seeing as ableist terms are always rooted in previously uncontroversial medical terms i propose the term "the swag ones"

[–] spujb@lemmy.cafe 8 points 2 weeks ago

just got diagnosed with cool guy syndrom so now i take.. adderall

[–] agent_nycto@lemmy.world 12 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Can't wait till neurodivergent becomes the new slur and we invent a new word to describe it so people use that instead of a slur which then becomes the new slur so we invent another new word to describe it so people use that instead of a slur which then ...

[–] spujb@lemmy.cafe 5 points 1 week ago

i hope instead the cycle could be broken in some way. :/ other folks in the thread are pointing out that ND is a term created by its own community, which could add to its resilience. i hope they are right!

[–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

how is special needs ableist?

[–] Draconic_NEO@lemmy.dbzer0.com 22 points 2 weeks ago

Anything is ableist if that's the intention is to be ableist. "Cognitive impairment" or "Brain damage" are clinical terms, but if one decides they can also be ableist insults.

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[–] SaltyIceteaMaker@lemmy.ml 9 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

du hast doch lack gesoffen "idiot", "neurodivergent" & "lame" als abelism zu bezeichnen.

was so angry/disappointed in that post that i couldn't get the message across with English.

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[–] latenightnoir@lemmy.world 8 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

"You're not normal! You CAN'T be normal, because then I'll no longer be THE normal! SHUT UP, THIS IS THE CONDITIONER FOR THE THREAD BY WHICH MY SANITY IS HANGING!"

[–] spujb@lemmy.cafe 10 points 2 weeks ago

“how can i have an identity without establishing and then demonizing an outgroup!?!”

[–] absGeekNZ@lemmy.nz 8 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Just about any term that refers to someone else can be used as an insult!

So as the old saying goes "offense is taken, not given". If you want to be insulted, you will be.

I find, people who insult others are saying more about their own character, than that of the target.

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[–] mindbleach@sh.itjust.works 7 points 2 weeks ago

Tone policing won't fix that some people predictably make fucking terrible decisions, for no sensible reason, and we need to deal with that and warn others about it.

Which is why the real solution is for every forum to fuck off with enforced civility and let people call each other assholes. Some of them will deserve it. Moderation exists primarily to make that call. You're not just a filter for no-no words. You're a human being and you're expected to have an opinion.

[–] AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space 6 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Also, “brave”

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[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 6 points 2 weeks ago (23 children)

Shouldn't this, then, extend to all implications of stupidity in behavior, not just individual words?

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[–] BearGun@ttrpg.network 5 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Idiot is ableist?

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[–] Drivebyhaiku@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago (2 children)

There are limited examples of this effect working in reverse. Take the word "Nice" for example. Nice back in ye old medieval times used to be a synonym for "stupid" or "simple" so saying someone was "nice" was insulting. Then there was this prolonged long fad where things being very plain and straightforward was considered a good thing and "Nice/simple" gained a positive connotation. Saying someone is "simple" or a "simpleton" retains this original sort of vibe but "Nice" now just means pleasant.

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