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First Router Designed Specifically For OpenWrt Released (sfconservancy.org)

submitted 3 weeks ago by schizoidman@lemm.ee to c/technology@lemmy.world

77 comments fedilink hide all child comments

cross-posted from: https://lemmy.bestiver.se/post/123708

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[–] empireOfLove2@lemmy.dbzer0.com 93 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (7 children)

Very weird ethernet setup. Gives you a 2.5g port so you could take advantage of the faster fiber many people have access to now, but only a 1g port so you can't even use the benefits of the faster network on your wired LAN. Not something most people's internet connections care about, but a weird thing to include regardless; it would have been better to leave them both 1g ports and shave $5+ off the sales price.

I'm sure this is a limit of the commodity chipset but it honestly doesn't have a place in the network I'm planning to build out as fully 2.5g compatible next year.

[–] catloaf@lemm.ee 56 points 3 weeks ago

I was going to say "with a 2.5g wan port and 1g switch ports, it can saturate 2.5 switch ports" but then I realized that it doesn't have switch ports, it has one WAN and one LAN port. Definitely a weird choice.

[–] JWBananas@lemmy.world 32 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

The included MT7976C wifi can theoretically saturate the 2.5 Gbps uplink on its own. The use case is overall throughput for a mixture of wired and wireless devices.

[–] sem@lemmy.blahaj.zone 17 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

It doesn't make sense to me to future proof wifi but not wired for $5 more, but maybe it makes sense to people in rural places

[–] JWBananas@lemmy.world 11 points 3 weeks ago

Let's be realistic. How many devices support a mainline version of OpenWRT and have more than one 2.5 Gbe port?

This thing is primarily a wifi router and access point. The available Ethernet ports, which are limited to what the chipset supports, are going to be more than sufficient for the majority of users.

If your main concern is wired throughput to the Internet, you are not the target audience for OpenWrt. The literal point of the OpenWrt project was to be an open source firmware for the WRT54G wireless router. The project has of course grown since then, but that is still its primary intended use case.

You are much more likely to find what you need in pfSense/OPNsense/etc, and on more powerful hardware. I would be way more concerned with the fact that it only has 1 GB RAM.

But if you still want to take that stance, there is nothing stopping you from reconfiguring the 2.5 Gbe port as a VLAN trunk and hanging it off a managed switch. Put your uplink in one VLAN and your LAN in another. That is going to be more than sufficient to saturate the 1 Gbps fiber connection that most people have (or at least asymmetrically saturate the 2 Gbps connection that some people have).

Or if you don't like that, just do the routing on the switch. If your primary concern is wired throughput, you'll probably already be doing that anyway. Then just use this thing as an AP, in which case the one port is sufficient.

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[–] Max_P@lemmy.max-p.me 16 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (2 children)

I'm struggling to think what one can even do with just two ethernet ports of different speeds. It's begging to be used as a gateway, VPN or firewall but you can't because you'll top out at 1G anyway. And assuming one of them is the LAN side, supposedly it'll be going to a switch so the router will never see LAN traffic anyway, only stuff through it which hits the bandwidth limitation.

I guess technically one could bond the WiFi and 1G link to make use of the 2.5G link? Or as an AP like it's got 2.5G upstream and passes through another AP down the line using the 1G port.

Very questionable specs.

E: it occured to me this looks like a potentially really good standalone AP if you give it 2.5G upstream and then branch off to another device down the line like some Ubiquiti ones do. But the form factor is ugly as hell to be mounted on a ceiling...

[–] planish@sh.itjust.works 5 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

Usually the routers you install OpenWRT on are really a CPU with one port to a VLAN-capable switch, and the port labeled WAN on the device is just VLAN'd separately by default. One cool thing OpenWRT lets you do on "normal" hardware is change the VLAN settings on the switch ports which are not accessible under stock firmware.

But if they are shipping "just" the router piece and making people go get their own VLAN-capable switch, I'm not sure what hardware exactly they expect people to use? And I'm not sure what being connected to the switch over one real 2.5G cable is going to do to LAN/WAN throughput, vs. how a "normal" router ties the CPU into the switch through means not known to mortal minds. Maybe it is just as good, maybe it is a huge bottleneck. It is definitely going to add cost over the $89 sticker price.

But if most people are just going to run fiber modem straight to WiFi, maybe this is the right config actually?

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[–] DaGeek247@fedia.io 8 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

You can run a router with just one Ethernet port on it. That's what subnets are for.

Also, if they only had two gigabit ports with WiFi, they'd be directly competing with the nano-pi for market share. https://www.friendlyelec.com/index.php?route=product%2Fproduct&product_id=296

Still, I'm actually with you. That is a weird choice to make.

[–] friend_of_satan@lemmy.world 8 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

s/subnets/vlans/

It's not a great idea to have multiple layer 3's sharing the same layer 2.

[–] DaGeek247@fedia.io 2 points 3 weeks ago

yes. that. Thank you. My google and word memory were not helpful when i posted that.

[–] deltapi@lemmy.world 4 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Subnets...do you mean VLANs?

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[–] UltraMagnus0001@lemmy.world 6 points 3 weeks ago

My Asus XT8 has a similar 2.5gb Wan but the other ports are 1gb

[–] kalleboo@lemmy.world 5 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

I just got upgraded to 10 Gbit internet the other week and was looking at routers, and it seems to be a surprisingly common configuration (or routers with 10 Gbit WAN and 2.5 Gbit LAN ports). I think router manufacturers are banking on 99% of people only caring about Wi-Fi and then being fooled by those "up to 7000 mbit over wifi!" numbers. And then due to scale those are the only chipsets that are affordable.

[–] empireOfLove2@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Yeah. Tbf at higher bitrates like 10G, if you really want to take full advantage of that insane amount of bandwidth, you really need to have a dedicated router/firewall machine, then use a 10G switched network with a standalone AP and then ethernet to as many devices as you can reasonably reach. 10G is expensive to use, sorry, and your desktops will likely need new NIC pcie cards too if you want to be able to really push 10G to it's limits.

My home network philosophy has always been that any one device (wifi devices excluded) should be able to use the full capabilities of the network. But that has always been with comparatively shit home internet.
If you have a very large network with a lot of devices and users, then it can be better to just build out 2.5G to each device but have 10G backhaul to your modem just so the bandwidth can be more evenly divided.

[–] kalleboo@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Yeah after doing a bunch of testing what I settled on was a used ThinkCentre Tiny with a dual 10G NIC running OpenWRT, and then a cheap Chinese PoE switch with 4x2.5G ports and 2x10G SFP+ ports. Router and my main computer on 10G, NAS and Wi-Fi (UniFi AP that I've had since before) on 2.5G, and then everything else is on a separate 1G switch.

For a home network, 2.5G LAN is really the sweet spot. The hardware is affordable now, the spinny drives in my NAS can't realistically do more than 200 MB/s for a real workload, there are no single-stream downloads online that are going to be faster (the fastest "normal" download I've seen is 2Gbit from Microsoft)

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[–] grue@lemmy.world 31 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

Other routers have run OpenWRT straight from the factory before (various GL.iNet devices come to mind, not to mention the OG Linksys WRT54G -- it may not have been called "OpenWRT" as such, but OpenWRT descends from that firmware).

In what way is this device "designed specifically" for OpenWRT that those were not?

[–] 486@lemmy.world 21 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (3 children)

Linksys WRT54G

The Linksys WRT54G did not run OpenWrt by default and the original OS does not even remotely resemble OpenWrt. What OpenWrt did use from the original OS was the Broadcom wireless driver because it was closed source (and a similar kernel version, so the driver could be used), since there was no driver in the mainline kernel.

But to try to answer the question, this device has been designed by the OpenWrt developers to fit their needs (and their users needs). Other routers running some variant of OpenWrt on them by default were designed by companies unrelated to the project. They most likely used OpenWrt because it was convenient to them. Their intentions weren't usually the same as the OpenWrt team's (repairability, easy to unbrick, etc.). Not that there is anything wrong with that. I like GL.Inet routers.

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[–] pastermil@sh.itjust.works 29 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

So it's Banana Pi.

Begs me to ask why, out of all their models to base on, they gotta pick the one with a 2.5GbE port and a single GbE port. I am fully aware they have similar board with four GbE ports instead.

[–] empireOfLove2@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

In sure the idea is that anyone who cares enough to buy specific hardware for openWRT is going to almost certainly have a standalone ethernet switch with far more than 4 devices plugged in.

[–] friend_of_satan@lemmy.world 9 points 3 weeks ago

with far more than 4 devices plugged in

Even more important, I don't want layer 1 dropping on my devices just because my internet gateway rebooted, especially if I'm using DHCP.

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[–] gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 24 points 3 weeks ago (5 children)

This would be potential impulse buy territory if it was 2x2.5… but a mix of 1 and 2.5 is frankly a tad baffling

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[–] just_another_person@lemmy.world 15 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I really like the spirit of this, but the price and features are just okay considering there are other companies designing similar and better products with more flexibility and around the same price. I may pick up a board to work on it, still, but I'll buy the Inet package with the same hardware and more Ethernet ports for $99 if given a choice.

[–] friend_of_satan@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

What other hardware at this price point would you consider for running openwrt?

[–] Saltarello@lemmy.world 4 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

Crap, I literally just bought a GL.iNet GL-MT600 Flint 2 which runs GL.iNet skin over OpenWrt & it has an option in its settings to switch direcrly to OpenWRT if you prefer, or you can also flash OpenWRT onto it yourself too.

[–] friend_of_satan@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Interesting, but at $160 the GL-MT600 is nearly twice the price of the OpenWrt One.

Good to know about though! My whole reason for asking for alternatives is I've had a great experience with dd-wrt in the past, and I'm sick of ubiquiti, so I'm looking ahead for my next router.

[–] Blaster_M@lemmy.world 11 points 3 weeks ago (8 children)

OpenWRT is cool, but I prefer OPNSense because unlike OpenWRT, you can actually upgrade OPNSense in its UI without requiring linux partition surgery.

[–] pastermil@sh.itjust.works 15 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

What are you talking about? Upgrading on OpenWRT only takes the new ROM image uploaded thru the Web UI.

[–] pivot_root@lemmy.world 6 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

The in-place upgrade process leaves a lot to be desired, in my experience. I understand why routers with limited storage capacity wouldn't be able to support it, but the lack of A-B partitioning support for x86 and ARM builds in 2024 is really stupid.

If an upgrade introduces a regression and breaks, my family is stuck without internet while I spend a few hours re-flashing an old release and making sure everything still works.

[–] Blaster_M@lemmy.world 4 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

This, right here, has been my experience every time.

Also when you run a complicated setup with over a dozen VLANs, policy routing for failover internet on specific vlans, and nat66 support due to secondary internet only giving you a /64, yeah... not fun having to set all that up because the updater breaks, yeah.... no.

[–] doughless@lemmy.world 3 points 3 weeks ago

The Linksys WRT3200ACM has A/B firmware support, but unfortunately that router is starting to get a little outdated. Saved me from a couple bad upgrades, but unfortunately it died on me about 4 months ago. I updated to the Banana Pi BPI-R3, which has been great for my network speed, but was a lot more complicated to set up.

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[–] chemicalwonka@discuss.tchncs.de 10 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

I broke my router updating OpenWRT :(

[–] Blaster_M@lemmy.world 8 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Every single time I've setup OpenWRT, keeping it updated was much more painful than anything else, even ASUS WRT-Merlin was easier to keep updated.

[–] doughless@lemmy.world 4 points 3 weeks ago

Are you trying to say you're not a fan of needing to reinstall packages after an upgrade? It's so simple with these easy to remember commands:

opkg update
cat /etc/backup/installed_packages.txt | grep overlay | sed s/\ *overlay// | xargs opkg install

[–] daniyyel@lemm.ee 7 points 3 weeks ago

That's why I wrote an Ansible playbook, to configure and update my router and access points. It's nice having this almost as infrastructure-aa-code, with all configuration changes under version control with a clear commit message. The script is available at https://github.com/danielvijge/openwrt-configuration-ansible, but do make some changes to match your configuration. I keep my network configuration (inventory file) in a separate, private GitHub repo, as that contains passwords etc.

[–] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 3 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Weird. Been upgrading several OpenWrt machines for many years now. Click a button in the UI, select a file, click another button to update.

[–] Shimitar@feddit.it 3 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

OpenWRT is a different scope than opnSense.

I have a few OpenWRT devices to cover WiFi in my home and definitely an opnSense on top of them for wan access and all the fancy stuff.

OpnSense can't to WiFi access point, thanks to BSD limited WiFi cards support, and definitely cannot fit on cots devices like OpenWRT can.

As well as indeed opnSense is a better choice than OpenWRT for edge devices.

While OpenWRT would do opsSense job, at least in part, the opposite is not true.

[–] Blaster_M@lemmy.world 3 points 3 weeks ago

I use Unifi Access Points for wifi

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[–] dabu@lemmy.world 11 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

For that price I recommend an EU built router that comes with a modified OpenWRT but also allows installing vanilla one - Turris Omnia. It is also very modular an can be upgraded (e.g. with 5G)

[–] RubberElectrons@lemmy.world 10 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

I saw the omnia for €339, vs this router..

[–] friend_of_satan@lemmy.world 10 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

Turris Omnia is 4x the price of the OpenWrt One.

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[–] zer0squar3d@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 3 weeks ago

On top of the other comments about price, last i checked, it doesnt support higher than 5ghz which was the deal killer for me, i almost bought it, hell i almost backed the project on whatever funding platform they were using, then that was revealed and i just forgot about it.

[–] iopq@lemmy.world 10 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

Definitely in the vein of what I was looking for, but for almost $90 I am going to ask for WiFi 6E

[–] friend_of_satan@lemmy.world 6 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (4 children)

Personally I'd get standalone AP's and hang them off a standalone switch so that if the internet gateway goes down the LAN experience is not interrupted.

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[–] Cris_Color@lemmy.world 5 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

Ah... Yeah 6e seems like a reasonable ask

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[–] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 2 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Hm, this might not be a bad replacement for my Unifi access points, if its radio is up to snuff. It's significantly cheaper than Unifi for WiFi 6.

E: ordered one

[–] Cris_Color@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago

That's awesome! The links to buy seem to be down though which is less than helpful

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