this post was submitted on 24 Oct 2024

268 points (98.6% liked)

Technology

59402 readers

2800 users here now

This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.

Our Rules

Follow the lemmy.world rules.
Only tech related content.
Be excellent to each another!
Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
Politics threads may be removed.
No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed

Approved Bots

founded 1 year ago

MODERATORS

268

What Ever Happened to Netscape? (www.techspot.com)

submitted 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) by Rekall_Incorporated@lemm.ee to c/technology@lemmy.world

70 comments fedilink hide all child comments

top 50 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[–] NaibofTabr@infosec.pub 100 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

Firefox is the spiritual successor of Netscape Navigator, as the Mozilla community was created by Netscape in 1998, before its acquisition by AOL. Firefox was created in 2002 under the codename "Phoenix" by members of the Mozilla community who desired a standalone browser rather than the Mozilla Application Suite bundle.

The Firefox project has undergone several name changes. The nascent browser was originally named Phoenix, after the mythical bird that rose triumphantly from the ashes of its dead predecessor (in this case, from the "ashes" of Netscape Navigator, after it was sidelined by Microsoft Internet Explorer in the "First Browser War").

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefox

On January 23, 1998, Netscape announced that its Netscape Communicator browser software would be free, and that its source code would also be free. One day later, Jamie Zawinski of Netscape registered mozilla.org. The project took its name, "Mozilla", from the original code name of the Netscape Navigator browser—a portmanteau of "Mosaic and Godzilla", and used to coordinate the development of the Mozilla Application Suite, the free software version of Netscape's internet software, Netscape Communicator. Zawinski said he arrived at the name "Mozilla" at a Netscape staff meeting. A small group of Netscape employees were tasked with coordinating the new community.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla

Everything that was useful in Netscape became the basis for Firefox.

See also the documentary.

[–] Thaurin@lemmy.world 12 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

I could’ve sworn that the browser was also called just Mozilla at one point, or was that just always the suite it was part of?

[–] dogslayeggs@lemmy.world 10 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

My memory is hazy, but I'm pretty sure Mozilla was a package and most people just didn't install the rest of the package. Everyone called the browser Mozilla because they didn't use the other parts. I could definitely be wrong, though.

load more comments (1 replies)

[–] kent_eh@lemmy.ca 3 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

could’ve sworn that the browser was also called just Mozilla at one point

If I remember correctly, at one point Mozilla referred to itself as "the godzilla of Mosaic" or something like that.

Mosaic being the first widely available web browser.

[–] palordrolap@fedia.io 5 points 3 weeks ago

I believe the joke was something like it was spelled "Netscape" but pronounced "Mozilla". Web searches (at time of writing) for "pronounced Mozilla" seem to confirm this. I also seem to remember that its user-agent string identifier was "Mozilla" from the earliest version and never contained "Netscape", which goes some way to explaining why I initially forgot the real history and assumed a rebranding to Firefox.

load more comments (2 replies)

[–] frunch@lemmy.world 87 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I loved Netscape as a kid. I would stare at the little Netscape icon with the shooting stars while waiting for pages to load... Funny how little things like that seemed so magical back then ✨🖥️💖

[–] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 51 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

They were magical.

[–] rottingleaf@lemmy.world 14 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

One can occasionally see things which are just as magical in our time.

It's just that - the Web is like Coruscant, what was magical is the lower levels, abandoned, decaying, full of predators and infections and barely supported ; people live on the middle levels, which are full of usual life with all kinds of stuff, and upper levels, which are heaven, but for few.

These things still happen. Just mostly not in the Web.

We have forgotten, but most of the magic is created by separate human beings, and it was a very rare situation where corporations would help it, in the 90s.

But then talking like that is a pretty tired cyberpunk trope. We'll see something good. Humanity finds new pits and stinky places, as the time goes, but these are not the only kind of things it finds.

[–] Meltrax@lemmy.world 10 points 3 weeks ago

The third of Arthur C Clarke's three laws:

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

[–] GamingChairModel@lemmy.world 32 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

Now that splash screen, with its pixelated gradient of the 256 color palette brings back some nostalgic memories.

It's funny because we can see pixelated stuff today mostly in shitty jpeg artifacts, but those follow the jpeg algorithm for how to best conserve file size within their compression scheme, so they look different. This splash screen seemingly has every pixel meticulously chosen so that it's in the right place, and working with only the limits of the color space.

[–] SlopppyEngineer@lemmy.world 31 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Dithering, it's a lost art. It always reminds me of Monkey Island.

[–] JeeBaiChow@lemmy.world 6 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Best game. You post like a dairy farmer!

Edit: got the lead up wrong.

[–] shalafi@lemmy.world 15 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

In the Windows 3.1 days I made my own icons. Yes, a single pixel out of place or wrongly colored would throw it all off.

[–] Mercuri@lemmy.world 3 points 3 weeks ago

Oh shit.... core memory unlocked. I forgot I used to do this. I forgot there was a time you would do this otherwise everything just had the same icon.

[–] moody@lemmings.world 14 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Even better, that splash screen was only 16 colors.

load more comments (1 replies)

[–] fulg@lemmy.world 26 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (3 children)

They became a poster child for why you should never “start over from scratch” even if your current codebase is awful. Because when you do that your competitors keep going, then they have years on your now stale product. Netscape lost all on their own…

Also: selling a browser? Man, the 90’s where wild.

[–] BananaTrifleViolin@lemmy.world 67 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

That's rather simplifying history and not the main reason Netscape failed.

Netscape lost because Microsoft used it's dominant monopoly position to bundle Internet Explorer with windows. By 1999 the writing was already on the wall - IE had already overtaken Netscape market share and was growing rapidly.

The Mozilla project and code base change was a gamble to try and fix the problems. When Microsoft released IE6 2001 they didn't bother releasing another major version for 6 years as they were so dominant.

So while the code base change was arguably mishandled, at worst it accelerated the decline. Instead the whole story is a poster child for how monopoloes can be used to destroy competition. The anti trust actions in the US and EU came too late for Netscape.

Ironically Microsoft was the receiving end of the same treatment when Google started pushing Chrome via it's own monopoly in search. They made a better product than the incumbent but they pushed it hard via their website that everyone uses.

[–] Zier@fedia.io 17 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

Chrome was also shoved down user's throats by being bundled with all kinds of software. When you downloaded programs from places like SourceForge, Softonic and similar, your download (when you installed it) had "Install Chrome Browser" already checked. If you forgot to uncheck the box, you ended up having to uninstall Chrome. It was the most annoying thing ever.

[–] Cocodapuf@lemmy.world 6 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Huh, weirdly I don't remember that. I remember having to uncheck a whole bunch of check boxes for browser extensions, toolbars, WinZip pro, etc. But I didn't remember that chrome was one of those. I'm sure you're right though.

[–] schizo@forum.uncomfortable.business 6 points 3 weeks ago

I don't think chrome was on sourceforge's list-of-malware they stuffed everything in, but it was bundled with a lot of legitimate software.

Google bought a lot of their marketshare, and did so with any method that resulted in an install, including bundled installer crap.

load more comments (1 replies)

[–] million@lemmy.world 8 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

The monopoly position helped for sure but I think it’s glossed over that at one point Internet Explorer was simply the best web browser on the market. It’s was only after years of mismanagement by Microsoft that it gained the reputation it has now. But there was a point in the late 90s early 2000s where Netscape was a super buggy mess and Internet Explorer was the best browser on the market.

That was true for Chrome as well, when that first hit the market it was a light and amazing browser. There were a lot of technology savvy early adopters for Chrome.

[–] GamingChairModel@lemmy.world 5 points 3 weeks ago

Yeah, Netscape 4.0 was simply slower than IE 4.0. Back then, when a browser was a program that would actually push the limits of the hardware, that was a big deal.

load more comments (3 replies)

[–] fulg@lemmy.world 3 points 3 weeks ago

I was being a bit facetious, thanks for the corrections and insight. Cheers!

load more comments (1 replies)

[–] rottingleaf@lemmy.world 6 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

Opera was a paid browser till it started going bad.

Never paid for it though, and started using it when it was free, so can't complain.

load more comments (2 replies)

[–] aleq@lemmy.world 3 points 3 weeks ago

Didn't the refactored netscape eventually evolve into Firefox though? Not disputing the poster child status or the fact that it's a terrible business decision, but the project did not really go stale I think?

[–] militaryintelligence@lemmy.world 23 points 3 weeks ago

I was there, 3000 years ago

[–] ColdWater@lemmy.ca 22 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

It became Firefox

[–] Psythik@lemmy.world 14 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Yeah I thought everyone knew this. Netscape became Mozilla Browser, which became Firefox.

[–] Dlayknee@lemmy.world 4 points 3 weeks ago

TIL!

load more comments (1 replies)

[–] stoy@lemmy.zip 21 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I have allways loved the Netscape logo

load more comments (1 replies)

[–] bitjunkie@lemmy.world 19 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

It was always my understanding that much of the core of Communicator eventually became early Firefox, but I've never really fact-checked that, just kind of read it here and there anecdotally on forums.

[–] sik0fewl@lemmy.ca 9 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

And Thunderbird for the email portion. Yes, web and email were in the same application.

[–] turmacar@lemmy.world 4 points 3 weeks ago

Vivaldi

load more comments (2 replies)

[–] KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml 15 points 3 weeks ago

Earth is riddled with empires who thought they would last forever.

[–] vxx@lemmy.world 13 points 3 weeks ago

Netscape got a serious case of Windows' forceful and illegal monopolisation of Internet Explorer.

[–] marker2002@lemmy.world 9 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

https://isp.netscape.com/

[–] CptEnder@lemmy.world 5 points 3 weeks ago

Holy shit someone still operates this?!

[–] icogniito@lemmy.zip 9 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Isn’t Netscape just Mozilla at this point? At least tech wise

[–] xylogx@lemmy.world 7 points 3 weeks ago

Yes, but no.

The source code for Netscape Navigator was open-sourced and has become Mozilla Firefox. The company Netscape is now a mostly defunct brand while Mozilla is a non-profit, public benefit company in service to the Mozilla Foundation, and the Mozilla community.

[–] palordrolap@fedia.io 7 points 3 weeks ago

And here I was about to say that it had simply become Mozilla Firefox.

I guess I pruned my knowledge (read: forgot) at some point because I know I went from using Netscape to the Mozilla Application Suite as my browser of choice, and then ultimately onto Firefox when that died. (Firefox and Thunderbird were well established and Seamonkey was still in its infancy, otherwise I probably would have switched to that instead.)

Looking at the facts, the AOL buy-out is what must have got me to switch to MAS.

[–] SplashJackson@lemmy.ca 5 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (3 children)

I been using it for a while, it became Mozilla Firebird

load more comments (3 replies)

[–] I_Miss_Daniel@lemmy.world 5 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Aah the joys of 256 color video cards.

[–] frunch@lemmy.world 5 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

If you could afford one! CGA/EGA were the best we had for a while. VGA/256 color was the stuff dreams were made of (and boy were we excited to finally get a computer that had it!!!)

load more comments (3 replies)

[–] P4ulin_Kbana@lemmy.eco.br 4 points 3 weeks ago

It is now in heaven.

[–] sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml 3 points 3 weeks ago

Holy shit I forgot about netscape

[–] cheese_greater@lemmy.world 3 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Can you still use or get Netscape?

[–] bigredcar@lemmy.world 8 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

The closest you can get is the Seamonkey browser, which forked off the old Mozilla Application Suite that Netscape 6/7 was based on. The last version of Netscape 9 was just a rebranded Firefox 2.x.

load more comments (1 replies)

load more comments