Loans are not aid. They're war profiteering off the desperate.
this post was submitted on 22 Oct 2024
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If they don't win then they can't pay it back. If anything it gives an incentive to lend them more.
The Iron Bank.
The profits being made on those assets aren’t being kept for Russia to use in the future. They’re now being used to fund Ukraine
Rachel, Where do "profits" on these assets come from? These aren't corporate bonds but Government bonds. The Governments (US, UK and others) are paying the defence contractors using public money.
If there were no Russian foreign reserves being stolen, would the west not have sent weapons to Ukraine? Of course not! The weapons manufacturers have to make profits, it would come out of a different Government account.
They are making excuses to make it look like the public isn't paying for it.
I don't think anyone is saying it isn't public money. More than Ukrain isn't on the hook to repay the loan after the war like the UK was to the US after WW2.
I'm sure that after hundreds of billions that were poured into Ukraine over the past couple of years, this is going to make all the difference.
Additional money for Zelensky to continue terrorizing, kidnapping and murdering Ukrainians :(
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[–]
bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org
-4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)
(1 children)
Any sources on this?
Sure, what exactly would you like to have source for? People being mass imprisioned in Ukraine? Zelensky's concentration camps? Kidnappings of people?
Edit: reading through your comment history you sound like a meth head lmao
Why? Because I'm "slightly unhappy" with Zelensky trying to kill me, my friends, family, and well, all Ukrainians? :/
(If you went through my comment history, you should have seen sources for everything I've said already, but I don't mind reposting them for you)
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bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org
3 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)
(2 children)
Yes sources on all the things you listed would be great.
Sure, here you go.
Here is one about millions of Ukrainians being imprisoned in Ukraine, held as Zelensky's hostages, since the start of the war: https://theconversation.com/why-banning-men-from-leaving-ukraine-violates-their-human-rights-178411
Here is ex-AFU colonel talking about how Zelensky turned Pokrovsk into a concentration camp: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7AXSB_WnYV0
As for the kidnappings, this shit happens every single day, there are so many videos and articles IN WESTERN MEDIA about this, how some people are still pretending this does not happen is beyond me... There is even a word for that now - busification. One moment you walk on a street minding your own business, and another moment you're being packed in a van by people in masks. Just enter it in your favourite search engine.
https://uadraftmuseum.ch/
https://files.catbox.moe/6vasrt.mp4
https://files.catbox.moe/ur24tz.mp4
https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2024/10/03/ukraine-is-employing-increasingly-controversial-methods-for-mobilization_6728127_4.html
And yes saying the leader of Ukraine is “genociding” Ukrainians is a meth head take on the situation. It almost sounds like you recently learnt that word and are applying it to everything.
So, how would you name it instead? OK sure, maybe "genocide" is too sensational, would "exterminate" be better? Or maybe simple "mass murder of hundreds of thousands (if not millions...)" is better?
EDIT: Although, considering that they started talking about genociding FOURTEEN YEAR OLDS "if such a need would arise" - I'll continue calling this for what this is - a fucking genocide.
Just for some constructive feedback, you shouldn’t use the term “genocide” when it isn’t applicable, because it just leads to people obsessing over the fact that you used that term rather than considering the actual point that you were making.
Just cause some "deep state" cornball says something on youtube, that doesn't make it real.
Just cause some dude says something about drafting 14yos, that doesn't mean it's actually happening.
Your sources are garbage, misleading, and definitely do not qualify as "genocide".
Just because it's not CNN or the NYT saying it (they would never go against the state department unless public opinion has already massively shifted) doesn't mean it's a bad source.
Le monde is one of the most "reputable" sources in Europe and they're corroborating, is a good source only a US source? For a conflict on the other side of the world? There's literally video evidence of the kidnappings.
[–]
bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org
4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)
(1 children)
Eh, and that's what I am talking about it...
Nothing would convince you. If Zelensky suceeds in wiping out every single Ukrainian from the face of Earth you will still find some excuse why it's not genocide, or why it was good... :/
So your point is that Ukraine is committing genocide by forcing their citizens to defend their country? And somehow they are the bad guys, not the imperialist Russians?
Maybe I misunderstood, but if not, that is some impressive mental gymnastics.
So your point is that Ukraine is committing genocide by forcing their citizens to defend their country?
Zelensky's regime is commiting genocide by kidnapping people on the streets and sending them to die, yes.
And somehow they are the bad guys, not the imperialist Russians?
As far as I know, real life doesn't work like cartoons where there is a good guy and a bad guy. I never said that Putin is a good guy, I even explicitly said otherwise (for those who like to go to through my comments). And yet, whenever I mention Zelensky exterminating Ukrainians somebody must say "BuT tHEn You SuPPoRt RuSSiA!!"...
Maybe I misunderstood, but if not, that is some impressive mental gymnastics.
Way less impressive than funding a war, exterminating people, mass imprisoning them and so on, and still still somehow claim that you support them...
So the argument is basically same as saying that the americans committed genocide during vietnam war because of the draft. I think it's extremely common practice to require citizens to defend your country during an invasion. I would argue this is done in most wars.
Sure, it's not great, but I don't think Zelensky is doing anything unexpected. Any European country would likely do more or less the same if Russia invaded.
As a European that's what I expect our government to do during an invasion. I would not call that genocide even if I'm sent to die.
do you really believe america was defending itself in the Vietnam war? is that an actual opinion that you hold?
Oh, obviously not, USA was definitely not defending itself. I was just pointing out that it would be ridiculous to say that USA was committing genocide on its own citizens when they sent them to war.
Well in the us case and precisely Vietnam, it would not be difficult to show that blacks were disproportionately drafted. The treatment of blacks could then be argued to be intentional. In the case of Ukraine I agree with the mass murder wording, for genocide I think that intent needs to be shown. So zelensky would need to intentionally kill the citizens(as in that being the goal), instead of 'just' using them like cheap meat for the machine.
So the argument is basically same as saying that the americans committed genocide during vietnam war because of the draft.
It's not at all the same. What US government did to their own citizens and to the countries they invaded is also terrible, but US government can't really genocide US citizens. People in US can have guns and can defend themselves from being kidnapped on a street and put into vans by people in masks. We, Ukrainians, can't really defend ourselves. Our only options are running or knives / pepper sprays. It is not an effective defence mechanism against people with rifles. I am also not aware of people being kidnapped by US government (at least on the scale Zelensky is doing that) during Vietnam war. Nobody prevented people from leaving the country. The terror that Zelensky is doing is in no way comparable to what you're trying to compare it with.
As a European that's what I expect our government to do during an invasion. I would not call that genocide even if I'm sent to die.
Well, you don't value your life or other people's lives. I do.
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[–]
bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org
0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)
(1 children)
You misspelled Putin
Are you sure?
Damn, mass kidnapping people on territories he doesn't even control (Kiev, Kharkiv, Odessa, Lviv, well every single city and village out there) seems really impessive, I wonder how does he do it...
Listing so many pieces of bullshit is still bullshit. But if Putin doesn't like the results of the war he started, he can always leave.
Listing so many pieces of bullshit is still bullshit.
What is bullshit? Zelensky's regime kidnapping people and sending them to the meat grinder? You not wanting to see it for some reason doesn't make it false.
https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2024/10/03/ukraine-is-employing-increasingly-controversial-methods-for-mobilization_6728127_4.html
But if Putin doesn't like the results of the war he started, he can always leave.
I am sure you won't believe me, but I'm not Putin. My friends are not Putin. My family are not Putin. Believe it or not, every other Ukrainian getting exterminated by Zelensky is not Putin as well. Could you please tell us, what do we need to do to not get kidnapped on a street and sent to die in the meat grinder? To be able to leave country to safety?