this post was submitted on 07 Sep 2023
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The change in the geopolitical order, disrupted by the invasion of Ukraine, has exposed the weaknesses of the German economic model. The German model, points out Wolfgang Münchau in one of his analyses for Eurointelligence, hinges on three ingredients: cost competitiveness, technological leadership in its industry and geopolitical stability, and ‘all of them are gone,’ he adds. On the one hand, the cut-off of Russian gas — which accounted for more than 50% of the gas consumed in Germany — has impacted the electro-intensive industry, forcing businesses like the chemical company Lanxess to restructure their business and close plants.

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[–] agressivelyPassive@feddit.de 88 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Energy prices are higher than in many other countries here, but not super high - especially not for businesses.

The real problem is that Germany is an gerontocracy that got complacent. Literally every change, whatsoever, will find at least 50 people arguing against it, because it could slighty affect their bottom line or their view. The result is a country that ground to a halt.

This is true in the business world, politics, science, administration. There are just too many old people that are afraid to lose anything.

Our car manufacturers straight ignored anything electric until Tesla built a factory literally on their door steps, our politicians willfully sabotaged wind and solar power (where we were world leading, at the time!) in favor of coal, because coal workers are somehow 10x more important than anyone else, our administration is still using paper everywhere, everything takes tons of useless paperwork, just because fucking Annegret thinks computers are a fad, our immigration system is almost nonexistant, since "we're not an immigration country" despite something like 25% of the people here migrated, we don't let refugees work, despite having literally too few workers to stock shelves at Aldi for 15% above minimum wage.

As a young German, I have to say, I'm afraid this country is fucked. But not because of any grand economical failure, but because the Germans as a people are idiots - luckily we're only killing ourselves this time.

[–] Ooops@kbin.social 24 points 1 year ago (1 children)

but because the Germans as a people are idiots

Which is easily explained when pensioneers (and soon to be pensioneers) have the absolute majority and give a fuck about anything but their pensions and everything staying as it was.

(For reference the 50/50 split of voters by age is quickly approaching 60...)

[–] agressivelyPassive@feddit.de 17 points 1 year ago

Yes, but even the younger ones are often vile.

There's a frightening large percentage of people who are just plain anti-social - and I don't mean that as hyperbole. They care about themselves and that's it, nothing else matters. You could see that during covid, they knew, their behavior killed, but didn't care. Even the tiny inconvenience of wearing a mask was too much to ask.

[–] QuarterSwede@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

luckily we're only killing ourselves this time.

Oof.

[–] TomHardy@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

not because of any grand economical failure, but because the Germans as a people are idiots

What no material analysis does to a mf. I like how in every capitalist economy, the rise of a crisis is always explained by anything but the fact that Germany is a corrupt, bourgeois dictatorship. It's always the mindset, the attitude, the rejection of some progress by some people or politicians appear to be dumb. Dude, it's not that some politicians or people do not understand some basic things, or they didn't expect that to happen. The government is driven by politicians that are puppets of top 1%. There are no really parties who represent the majority, the only difference between them is that they have stocks in different branches at different corporations. Stuff like coal is favored is not that "somehow" they value coal workers more, it's that the coal lobby pushed its influence.

And finally we see what such an economic systems does to even successful countries, there are no safety mechanisms that prevent dismantling the industry and lowering life qualities of the majority after all.

[–] agressivelyPassive@feddit.de 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

And who believes their lies? Who votes those guys into power?

This country is still a democracy, not a dictatorship. But if the demos is stupid, villains get the kratos.

[–] TomHardy@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

And who believes their lies? Who votes those guys into power? This country is still a democracy, not a dictatorship.

That's the point that voting the "correct" guys who "don't lie this time" will never work, hence it's a dictatorship of capitalists. I agree that if anything, the people are too stupid to realize that in a bourgeois dictatorship such as Germany they do not have any mechanisms on the decisions made by the government. So even if they don't believe the lies, who do they vote for then? The only parties who get attention by the one's who have most media representation, means a lot of budget to promote themselves, that's the Mr. moneybags.

But if the demos is stupid, villains get the kratos.

Yes but is this really the point you made in your first comment? More like "if the demos is stupid it can't get it right". I mean that's coming from the economic system from a country such as Germany's. If you meant this before, I agree. My point was that arguments such as this

Literally every change, whatsoever, will find at least 50 people arguing against it,

Annegret thinks computers are a fad

“we’re not an immigration country”

is exactly because the corruption in a capitalist country like Germany. They will evaluate problems based on who of the richies gets how much money out of which outcome, and not because they are having some ideological "views" typical to Germans on it that is stalling the process.

Edit: I think we talk about two different types of stupidity: the first, where unpopular policies are passed in capitalist countries are explained by "the politician is too stupid or lacks knowledge therefore it was made" and the second is about the people, who stupidly believe in that, hoping the next government is not stupid. I meant the first one, it is a popular justification in Germany, that hides the fact that unpopular decisions are made because of the inherent corruption in a capitalist country.

[–] bouh@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

EU is with you my friend. You're not going down alone, we're going with you. ;)

[–] library_napper@monyet.cc 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The narrative of this article is disgusting. There is a tradeoff between ethical energy sources and profit. This is good news.

All countries should be transitioning away from carbon energy. That means they can't use as much energy. That means they can't produce as much useless crap. That is good.

Please stop placing "the economy" over the pressing climate catastrophe. Making ethical decisions requires sacrifices.

[–] TotallynotJessica@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I agree overall, but for Germany in particular, they have fewer opportunities for renewables than other countries. At the same time, their most plentiful source of home grown energy is coal which is worse in every way to the gas they were getting from Russia. The economy only matters in so far as it serves the people, but it unfortunately matters a lot for people's well being, especially in the context of global capitalism.

[–] library_napper@monyet.cc 3 points 1 year ago

Germany has an enormous amount of wind energy, and there is plenty of room for expansion in the North Sea

[–] alvvayson@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Our national security experts in the UK, Netherlands, Germany and France all knew back in the 1970s that we needed energy security.

The oil crises proved that.

We all developed nuclear energy, but only France actually went through and achieved energy security.

[–] cybort1983@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

Sorry, this is not correct. France is importing massive amounts of electricity power from renewable sources from Germany, because the France nuclear power plants are out of order, without cooling water or have cracks in the containment.

[–] agarorn@feddit.de -4 points 1 year ago

Lol. Which media do you consume that you spit out such bullshit?

[–] UnfortunateShort@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

And I claim he is dead wrong. It's hard to overstate just how much money is in and goes through Germany. Despite its size (in land and people), it's one of the largest economic and scientific powers in the world. The crises left but scratches so far.

Power was already expensive before, Germany and the EU are maybe less, but not unstable and there are tons of research and patents originating in Germany.

With a few course corrections, some of which have taken place, some more being underway and some maybe still necessary, I don't see why Germany or its economy should collapse any time soon. At least that's what Münchau seems to imply might happen.

Please feel free to tell me that I'm an idiot, if a couple years from now he turns out to be right. I really doubt it tho. There are even experts who actually claim we're in relatively good shape rn and I strongly agree with them. There is quite a bit of room to improve in some areas, but hey, just witnessed two major crises and all

[–] Nerorero@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 1 year ago

Germany has exported its production into other countries for profit. We are depending on others for our "german quality" Our capitalism is to unregulated

[–] Tankiedesantski@hexbear.net 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's almost as if cutting yourself off from your biggest energy supplier while needlessly antagonizing one of your biggest customers at the same time has bad consequences.

Too bad you can't eat smug moral superiority or heat your home with European Values.

[–] No_Money_Just_Change@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I can't for the love of me, understand how people think:

"would you still try to stop a madman aiming to conquer half your continient with an army of rappists and warcriminals if there is a small chance you will be cold?"

is a valid argument

[–] Tankiedesantski@hexbear.net 5 points 1 year ago

Oh come now.

Biden isn't trying to conquer half of Europe. He clearly wants all of it.

[–] zephyreks@hexbear.net 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Has Russia made any indication they want to touch NATO?

[–] No_Money_Just_Change@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

They have said they will move their borders in polish territory if their security demands it.

This then off course depends on what russia defines as a security risk.

[–] zephyreks@hexbear.net 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] No_Money_Just_Change@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] zephyreks@hexbear.net 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

“That is why it is so important to achieve all the goals of the special military operation. To push back the borders that threaten our country as far as possible, even if [this is to] are the borders of Poland,” said Medvedev.

English translation isn't doing him any favours. He's saying he wants to push to the Polish border, not across it.

[–] putoelquelolea@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago

Every economist has a model.

And every economist who has implemented his model in a given country, will be able to explain - in great detail - why it didn't work