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submitted 20 hours ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/politics@lemmy.world
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[-] SwingingTheLamp@midwest.social 0 points 18 minutes ago* (last edited 15 minutes ago)

Let's break down this bullshit: A vote for Jill Stein is a vote for Jill Stein. The election clerks count ballots marked for Stein and report the vote totals that Stein received. A vote for Jill Stein is literally a vote for Jill Stein.

The statement that a vote for Stein is a vote for Trump is, of course, metaphorical. It's asserting that a vote for Stein is morally equivalent to a vote for Trump by the speaker's moral reckoning. It's a rhetorical shortcut. This shortcut rests on the notion that either the voter would have voted for Harris, or that it is a moral imperative to stop Trump above all else.

That's a moral judgement call. Other people may judge differently. Flatly stating that a vote for Stein is a vote for Trump so vehemently and absolutely elides any possibility of discourse and clearly tells the Stein voter that the speaker will not listen to or consider any of their views, or reasons to vote for Stein.

Fine, you believe that, but when has telling people more or less directly that you do not have any intention of considering their political beliefs won them over to your side? How is that a good tactic? If it worked, then why not employ it on Trump supporters? Go ahead, tell them that the party you support will ignore what they think and want, and demand they vote for your candidate.

If it doesn't work on them, why should it work on Stein voters?

[-] mlg@lemmy.world 7 points 2 hours ago

I mean doyee?

No one's voting 3rd party because they think they'll win, they're just throwing away a vote for Harris. Their statement is that they have no issue with another 4 years of Trump because their demands aren't being met anyway (cough genocide).

You can argue all day about the rationality and lack of utilitarianism, but it won't change anything.

If MLK were alive, he'd probably vote Democrat because he believes there is a solution in comprise over time, and keeping Republicans out is beneficial to that. (He generally favored the more progressive party).

If Malcolm X were alive, he'd probably be protesting just like the uncommitted group, but choose not to vote if his major demand wasn't met, because his reasoning would be that any promised or hypothetical solutions would not come to fruition. (The Ballot or the Bullet)

Both have valid reasoning, and it can obviously depend on the situation, but it bugs me that 50 years later people still don't understand why people choose to vote a certain way.

[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 1 points 29 minutes ago

No one’s voting 3rd party because they think they’ll win, they’re just throwing away a vote for Harris.

Would you prefer people voting 3rd party not vote at all?

If Malcolm X were alive

Why Malcolm X’s Family Is Suing the FBI, NYPD, and CIA 58 Years After His Death

Do you seriously think X was pro-FBI? Why on earth would he support a candidate who was?

We just got finished fighting a year long battle with the tankies on Lemmy that making the genocide in Gaza their singular issue and abstaining from voting for Kamala is like handing Trump the presidency. It should be a duh doie moment, but sadly it isn't.

[-] Cryophilia@lemmy.world -2 points 1 hour ago

Both have valid reasoning

I disagree.

[-] stinerman@midwest.social 6 points 4 hours ago

In California, it doesn't matter because the results are already known. In other states the calculus is a bit different.

[-] Cryophilia@lemmy.world 4 points 1 hour ago

Online rhetoric sways voters in swing states. Your vote may not change the outcome, but your words might.

[-] stinerman@midwest.social 1 points 43 minutes ago* (last edited 42 minutes ago)

That's absolutely true, especially for a paper like the LA Times. I am dubious that there is any appreciable effect when it comes to random blogs and so forth.

[-] thoro@lemmy.ml 5 points 4 hours ago

Right? Imagine believing there are enough conscientious progressives / leftists to flip CA red because of third party voting. Sure, Jan.

[-] Fedizen@lemmy.world 8 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

Who is this article for?

It doesn't address the real problem here: That first past the post voting is a broken system and that main party candidates should make more effort to fix this glaring hole in the voting system.

Because fptp is garbage, third parties are little more than a method to undermine a candidates opposition (in the US in 2024 the green party is ironically propped up in part by the republican party)

By leaving out fptp it just sounds like anti democracy drivel.

[-] UrPartnerInCrime@sh.itjust.works 1 points 11 minutes ago

Most all Harris voters agree things need to be changed.

We also agree that NOW is not the time for that. Just, let's make sure the orange man stays out of power first before arguing what to change.

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[-] SeattleRain@lemmy.world -2 points 2 hours ago

They never have this energy for the millions of actual Trump voters.

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this post was submitted on 30 Sep 2024
388 points (89.8% liked)

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