this post was submitted on 16 Sep 2024
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IMPORTANT SITE REMINDERS ARE LISTED AFTER THIS RANT (so please read all of it in order to find the rules >:3)

On this mega I shall take the opportunity to rant about one of my favorite things: the Webnovel UNJUST DEPTHS!

Do you love transgenders?

Do you love communism?

Do you love queer romance?

Do you love killing fascists in a giant fucking mech?

Would a plotline with all of these things happening in a underwater retro-futuristic gundam setting intrigue you?

Especially if its actually really well written with good characters, rich worldbuilding, and a marxist leninist transfem author?

All of the answers should be: YES I DO ~~or else I WILL BAN YOU~~

Since you obviously love all of those things then Unjust Depths is perfect for YOU yes YOU! It is DESTINY

The Imbrian Ocean is at a time of severe instability. The monarch of the vast Empire that spans its unjust depths (:3) is sick and nearing death, every territory of the ocean now vying to carve their own Destiny out of the chaos. From the Volk fascists pigmask-off , Zionists hamas-base (they literally will not die why are they still here oh my god), The 'Anarchists' (social chauvanists) lenin-dont-laugh in Bosporus, and the monarchs gui-trans of each vast noble domain, each vies for power and prestige no matter who they crush underfoot, but it would be a pretty depressing story without a bright light in the dark.

On the edge of the Empire sits the glorious Union! The (Soviet) Union soviet-chad is a socialist federation of three states (and one anarchist mountain left-unity-4 )that were formerly slave colonies under the Imbrian Empire until they broke away in a fierce liberation war. They have spent the last 20 years since then building themselves up. Whether they be Human bridget-disco , Shimmi kbity-how (Catgirls who usually follow a religion closely related to modern Islam), and Kattaran transshork-happy (a hybrid humanoid species with characteristics of sea life ranging from sharks to cuttlefish)building socialism side by side.

First lead under the revolutionary leader Dashka Kansal, then the Idealist Ahwalia who lead the country to near ruin in pursuit of building a utopia on pillars of sand, then under the scientific socialist three-heads-thinking leadership of the Grand Marshall of the Union, Bhavani Jayanskar (I love Jayanskar so much shes basically as if Stalin, Lenin, and Zhukov were rolled into the same person but was a black lesbian badass who wore the uniform REALLY WELL)(she aint the main character at all tho shes only in very few scenes i just love her so much). Under Jayanskar, the Union has been growing their economy to both eliminate hunger and give everyone a home chad-stalin , but also growing their military capabilities for the inevitable return of the Empire. The Union is alone, but with the people by its side nothing, not even Destiny, can snuff out true freedoms light. specter

As war wages between the Empire and Republic (basically underwater USA) once more over the lands between them, the facade begins to finally crack...

And a border conflict between the Empire and Union escalate, and the dreaded reconquest begins.

Amidst this turmoil, lives our main characters (yes there are multiple and all of them are lovely). Each of whom I personally love dearly, and are very well characterized. Many are soldiers of the Union, some are scientists, some are divers (mech pilots), some are lost strands finding new meaning after joining this band of Brigands

All are Communists steban

All serve the Union USSR

All would gladly give their lives to defending socialism comrade-stoic

but even they would have little inkling of the adventure set in store for them as the lands beneath the waves erupt in fire, fury, and revolt

Can these transgender badasses kick fascist ass?

Can they kiss? (oh my god please kiss ISTG THERE IS SO MUCH SHIPPING AHHHH ITS GLORIOUS)

FIND OUT HERE: https://unjustdepths.com/

please do or else I will pout incessantly

just try it pleeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaase i need to talk to someone about it after Cromalin went AFK

(I miss her, she was a real one)

REALLY IMPORTANT RULES BELOW, MUST READ

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As a reminder, be sure to properly give content warnings and put sensitive subjects behind proper spoiler tags. It's for the mental health of not just your comrades, but yourself as well.

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(page 10) 50 comments
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[โ€“] lurkerlady@hexbear.net 11 points 3 months ago (14 children)
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[โ€“] TerminalEncounter@hexbear.net 11 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Prequel to Young Sheldon:

The Conception of Sheldon

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[โ€“] Eco@hexbear.net 11 points 3 months ago (3 children)
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[โ€“] Eco@hexbear.net 11 points 3 months ago (18 children)

MUSIC MONDAY MOTHERFUCKERS

i would like to know what you're listening to please :^)

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[โ€“] Yor@hexbear.net 11 points 3 months ago (3 children)
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[โ€“] TheDoctor@hexbear.net 11 points 3 months ago

I had like two or three days where my chronic exhaustion and poor executive function were just fixed shortly after I upped my e dose. Now Iโ€™m back to normal and I just want to cry. I didnโ€™t remember what being unburdened was like and I almost would have preferred to not remember.

[โ€“] QueerCommie@hexbear.net 11 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)
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[โ€“] TheGenderWitch@hexbear.net 11 points 3 months ago (2 children)
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[โ€“] lilypad@hexbear.net 11 points 3 months ago (10 children)

I was writing about Lilith and her history in PMs, and decided to put it here in the mega because i find it interesting and want to infodump to as many people as want to read it.

Im not citing sources, sorry. Probably most of what I write is covered in a thesis by Pereira (at least, my notes are riddled with "see Pereira thesis") so yk, go read that if your interested. Also several analyses of the alphabet of ben sirah, as well as research/analyses by kramer and others (work that is super flawed btw so take everything with massive salt), and also a bunch of kabbalistic rabbis and writings (which are, uh, out there. Kabbalah is kinda problematic imo).

In addition, the portion of this on ancient language isnt the best sourced in my notes

Anyway:

Lilith, or how I learned to stop worrying and love being a demon

part 1 (CW biblical traumas, including SV)

Liliths Origin

So, to look at Lilith we have to go way way back. Unfortunately we dont know her origin, its been long lost to destroyed writings and changed or extinguished oral traditions. We can speculate that she played a role in (or perhaps originated in) ancient sumerian mythology.

Just to preface this with a disclaimer: there has probably been more research done about Lilith and her origins since I last looked into it. The origins of lilith are ultimately of lesser importance to me than what she represents directly today, and what she represents to me personally. I'm putting this here because its fascinating.

Even the origin of her name is in question. While the Rabbis saw ืœื™ืœื” (the word night in hebrew) and immediately drew a connection with ืœื™ืœื™ืช (Lilith), this is most likely not the case. Rather, the word ืœื™ืœื™ืช is likely a loan from the sumerian root LIL, which would have it related to the words lalu (verb: to be abundant, noun: luxurious) and lulu (noun: lascivious). Sumerian LIL roughly means wind and spirit; the stuff between earth and heaven, that seperates the two (please see the meaning and etymology of sumerian ENLIL, as well as the words that descend from it, as well as sumerian An-Ki). Theres a whole host of stuff to be said about ENLIL and the creation myth and mythos in general of sumeria, but what we care about is the LIL root.

This LIL root also forms the word Lilitu. Now, this word Lilitu may be related to Lilith, but it may not; we dont have enough information (to my knowledge) to say so definitively.

But theres a few bigger pieces of evidence that people sometimes state as evidence of the etymological origin of Lilith.

One of these reside in the babylonian demon classes of ghost and demon, and more specifically lilu/lilitu and idlu-lili/ardat-lili. These are the masculine/feminine versions of the same demon. Idlu- and ardat- mean a man/woman of full strength, or otherwise fully mature (i.e. not children or the elderly). If Lilith has a root in ardat-lili, then IMO its likely where her "seductress" streak comes from; ardat-lili is a demon with no husband who wanders searching for sexual satisfaction. (iirc the same is true for idlu-lili, just reverse the genders). In the case of ardat-lili, she was said to come to men in their dreams and steal their seed.

Gilgamesh is another potential root, for two reasons. Firstly, the Huluppu tree. It was uprooted and replanted by Inanna, who wanted to make stuff out of it for herself (been a long time since I've looked at this, could be wrong, but point being she wanted to chop it down and use its wood). But she couldnt cause a snake, a bird, and lilith had established their residence in the tree. Lilith is translated from lil-la-ke, but this translation is not explicitly justified and is again circumstantial. Theres more to this but its not incredibly relevant here.

Theres also the issue of gilgamesh's father. again, in short, the candidates are: lugal-banda (a king), the high priest of Kullab, or a LIL-LA demon (note the same root LIL). This is all super super speculative, but if a LIL-LA demon was the father, and gilgamesh's mother was herself divine, this would make gilgamesh's 2/3 divinity make sense, because demons are partially divine (also see the counting system used then and the "1 part = ยฝ, 2 parts = โ…”" thing).

Theres also the Lilith relief. Its a relief carving of an unknown goddess/deity, which people have associated with Lilith without really any grounds (to my knowledge) beyond "the horned crown means she belongs to the divine order, the wings mean she is of the wind, and the owl indicates she is a night demon", so its pretty vibes based. Other potentials include lamashtu and pazuzu, who dont fit for other reasons, so she became associated with sumerian lilitu which were identified with Lilith. Others thing she is Ishtar, or Nergal, or some think it is an unknown godess who was worshipped.

So, all of that to say, we dont know where the fuck Lilith comes from, and the best we have are guesses and theories and conflicting interpretations of art.

The next chronological step

We have a huge gap in our potential string of Lilith we draw back through the ages. From like 2000BCE to maybe 600 or 700 BCE we have no idea what is happening to these myths that (may) inform our modern myth of Lilith.

But what we find in these more recent times (well, as recent as 600BCE can be considered) is that Lilith is mentioned in magical incantations. Namely a set of bowls as well as hebrew amulets. This is the earliest we can almost definitively say "this is Lilith", but we have no way to directly tie her back to the earlier ghosts and the sumerian LIL word root.

There is also the Arslan Tash, but to my knowledge this was a fake that someone made in the 30s, so I tend to disregard whatever I read about it.

The bowls tell the story of Elija meeting Lilith with her posse on her way to kill a mother who is in childbirth and eat her unborn baby. The story isnt really relevant, just its conclusion, that Lilith shall not interfere when she sees her name written or hears it said. It also provides a list of all of her names. Imo, this may be a kind of syncretism or mixing of myths where many cultures have a similar enough figure that she has many names and is conflated into a single being in this list of names.

Then theres the amulets. Amulets are in a weird place in Judaism, cause theyre forbidden by the rabbis, but we have a bunch of practices that originate as amulets (tassles and fringes on garments, Mezuzah, etc.). But what we look to are the pregnancy/childbirth amulets, which carry either the name of Lilith, or the name of one or more of three angels (we will get to them later).

Some amulets also talk about Lilith coming and stealing the seed of men in the night, and using it to reproduce and make more demons. This is one place that we see better evidence for the connection to the ardat-lili, but again it could be a total coincidence.

moving into the years 900-1100 CE

So jumping forward again, we find the alphabet of ben sirah. This is perhaps the most common citation I see when looking at stuff about Lilith.

The big takeaway here is that Lilith began as Adams first wife, which explains why there are two genesises in the Torah. God made Lilith alongside Adam, and she and Adam were going to have sex, and she refused to be beneath him, instead wishing to top him. (side note, a couple rabbis have pointed out that theres some major mistranslations in the bible, and its perhaps better translated that god created an androgynous being which he then split in two, creating man and woman. But thats tangential and not relevant to this story) Because she refused to bottom for Adam, and Adam tried to force her to, she invoked the tetragrammaton and flew away from the garden of eden. The three angels mentioned before came out to see her, and tried to make her come back, but she refused (important note: God himself could not make her return to the garden...). She becomes a demon, births hundreds of baby demons a day, and the angels say that they will kill many many of her children every day unless she comes back. To which she responds that she will then go to the houses of women in labor or who are pregnant, kill them, and take or kill their babies (she has dominion for 8 days for boys and 20-odd days for girls iirc). So the angels negotiate that she wont if she sees their names or her own name inscribed there. (its been a minute since I read this myth, I may have gotten some details wrong but this should be mostly correct).

This is all made a bit more confusing because the alphabet of ben sirah is kiiiiinnnddd of a satirical text. We dont know for certain, but it begins certainly in a manner that would be the equivalent of a ranbinical south park, mocking the prophets birth stories (ben sirah is born speaking, and his whole birth story is fucked: his father is forced by a mob of men to masturbate into the waters of the bathhouse, and a few days later its the womens day at the bathhouse and his daughter is impregnated by his somehow still living sperm, and gives birth to ben sirah), mocking teachers, etc. etc. But it is probably a compiled work, or a work written over multiple years and potentially by multiple authors. So it may have started as a satirical work and become serious. But the portion about Lilith, its unclear to me if it is satirical or not.

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[โ€“] magi@hexbear.net 11 points 3 months ago (1 children)
[โ€“] ashinadash@hexbear.net 11 points 3 months ago (1 children)
[โ€“] MusicOwl@hexbear.net 11 points 3 months ago (2 children)
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[โ€“] buckykat@hexbear.net 10 points 3 months ago

:lets-fucking-go: Unjust Depths megathread

[โ€“] rtstragedy@hexbear.net 10 points 3 months ago (14 children)

f it's so humid here too, and cold, now i have to decide if it's worth turning heat on if its going to be 22 and sunny this afternoon (attic has so much insulation in it so anything above 16 slowly cooks me in my office)

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[โ€“] rtstragedy@hexbear.net 10 points 3 months ago (1 children)

walked into my (home) office this morning and the brand new whiteboard that i just got for work had fallen off the wall due to the crappy adhesive strips

if this isn't a perfect metaphor for my job, i don't know what is.

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[โ€“] khizuo@hexbear.net 10 points 3 months ago (8 children)

Okay, long rambly thoughts now that I'm done with Nevada part one.

Spoilers for all of part 1So I went into this book knowing that it was a book that was more geared towards a transfemme audience (which I was totally down for, no problems from me on that.) Thus I guess I didn't expected to go "she's just like me fr fr" with Maria. I also went into this book knowing how much we talk about it here (though I avoided all the spoilers, so yay me) and I wasn't sure if I had much to add to the conversation. I'm still not sure, I don't think I'll be saying anything novel. But here I go, here's some of the stuff that I thought about and that we discussed in class today.

... I must concede, Maria is indeed like me frfr. I mean not literally, there are a lot of differences in our lives, and I know that I am within the demographic of vaguely transmasc-ish nonbinary that she's (understandably due to transmisogyny) critical of. But the way her dysphoria/dissociation is described, the way it affects the people around her, the way she moves into the world like she's constantly running away from it โ€” that hit way too close to home. There was a part in the book where she mentions both Fugazi and the Bouncing Souls both within two chapters, and I felt directly called out because I listen to those bands โ€” it was like Imogen Binnie reached right into my playlists to pluck that directly from behind my eyes.

I think I brought up two points in class that became small topics of discussion, so I'll put them here.

  1. Maria and the concept of finding personal authenticity alone vs. in a relationship. Maria talks about how she's never been single since she came out as trans, how "she's only been a woman in the context of relationships" (60-61). And yet within those relationships, she is completely isolated from her partner, retreated into her own world, and definitely not communicating. When Steph breaks up with her, she is elated to be single. Someone else in the class brought up that this is a huge contrast to Piranha, who is single, generally hates going out, and yet has no problems communicating her boundaries to Maria. There's this push and pull in the novel's first half of what kind of person Maria is, within vs outside of relationships; and whether or not her being single is going to help her find herself and learn to deal with the bullshit that comes with being trans. Or if her little adventure in Steph's car is going to just turn out to be yet another sojourn of self-discovery that ends up leading nowhere, as Steph thinks it will be.

Honestly, reading the way Maria and Steph's relationship was described felt like I was getting punched in the face, because it precisely reflected my relationship with my ex-girlfriend. I entered a relationship around the same time I came out as nonbinary, and we dated* (*we were not specifically romantically together the entire time) for over two years before she broke up with me. I was trans and she was cis, I had horrible mental health and dissociated heavily to deal with it, and after a while she was left with a partner who was quiet and uncommunicative and, after a while, didn't seem to be all that into the relationship. I am happy that she broke up with me and I hope she's doing better now. Idk, personal anecdote I guess; that part of the book hit hard for me.

  1. What it means to be real, to be present, to be "authentic" in the context of being some sort of punk rocker. As someone who is myself into punk rock, goth, general subculture music shit โ€” I know that this appearance of punk rock as the most "authentic" kind of music is as constructed as anything else. I mean, it's absolutely a place where people find community and self-expression, but that's not limited to punk rock. And Maria knows this too โ€” as I was talking about this, my professor pulled out a quote:

"It's a problem: you grow up reading about punk and grunge and earnest dude rock in all the magazines and internalizing the idea that artifice is totally bullshit, man, and we wear these clothes because they're comfortable, not for any kind of fashion statement, and we're just trying to communicate, not be cool, and then you transition and realize, oh shit, there's going to have to be some intentionality in the way I present my body and my actions... Like, it would be nice to believe that you could just exist, just be some true, honest, essential self. But you only really get to have a true honest essential self if you're white, male, het, and able-bodied. Otherwise your body has all these connotations and you don't get the benefit of the doubt." (133-134)

Maria discusses the way many people put on punk rock personas to project an image of being real and authentic, especially privileged white kids. The base of capitalism, and the superstructures of white supremacy, ableism, patriarchy, cissexism, anti-fatness, etc. โ€” what does it mean to be your real authentic self under that? Is it even possible? Is punk rock just a coping mechanism for all of it, a pretense of authenticity to deal with the fact that it's impossible to self-actualize as a person under capitalism? I wonder what Marx would think of punk rock, lol.

It's funny โ€” I've always personally thought of my punk rock self as a persona that I put on and take off. As much as I'd like to pretend it is, punk and goth music does not make up all of my listening; maybe about half of it. I love the music, and I love the fashion (and subculture is very much about fashion, despite what gatekeepers will try to say), but it's also an aspect of me that I project outwardly in order to occupy a specific space. Add onto the fact that I am trans, that I am Chinese, that I am COVID-conscious (which means I can't participate in these scenes physically), and I know the fact that I am not afforded the same image of "authenticity" that white, het, able-bodied men in the scene are. There is a part of these scenes that will forever see me as a poser, because how dare I occupy the same space as them, when they're white men who are just "in it for the music", and I'm a queer person of color who enjoys fashion? They literally gatekeep the image of authenticity, because despite wanting to present themselves as being opposed to the superstructure under capitalism, in many ways they fit neatly into it.* And the US literally blasted punk rock over the iron curtain, to try to bring down socialism.

*Side note: individual local scenes are very different, and there are many punk and alternative music scenes which are made up of primarily POC and/or queer people. As previously noted, I can't physically participate in these scenes because the lack of COVID safety in them literally gatekeeps me out of it; but scenes made up of POC are probably different in some ways from scenes made up of mostly white people. And there is a lot of genuine anti-capitalism in punk. It's all very scene-dependent, but I guess I'm mostly trying to make a point that the image of punk as the most "authentic" form of music is just constructed.

Uh idk if this made any sense. Anyways. Orange book is fun.

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[โ€“] BountifulEggnog@hexbear.net 10 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (6 children)

sadThat hopeless feeling :sadness:
spoiler self harm thoughts I really want to cut myself tonight. Fucking horrible body I'm trapped in. I know I'll just end up scaring it more... I just want to cut it. Honestly why do I gaf though. I already hate this body.
suicideI've been thinking about methods a lot. There's a few that stick out to me. I shouldn't talk about it more though, since they are just thoughts.

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