this post was submitted on 03 Sep 2023
656 points (97.5% liked)

politics

19104 readers
3030 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

Incarcerated people work for cents on the dollar or for free to make goods you use.


Brittany White, 37, was arrested for marijuana trafficking in Alabama in 2009. She went to trial to contest the charges — after all, just a year prior the United States president had admitted, cheekily, that inhaling was “the point.”

She was sentenced to 20 years. But her sentence was meted out in portions, based on good behavior, and she, posing no discernable public safety risk for selling a plant increasingly legal in states all across the U.S., was allowed to work on the outside.

She got a job at a Burger King.

But the state of Alabama took a significant portion of her paltry minimum wage. “They charged me $25 a week for transportation,” she tells Truthdig. “And they take away 40% of your check. It’s egregious to be making minimum wage, and then to have so much taken away by the state.”

Minimum wage in Alabama is $7.25.

Still, White considers herself lucky. Even her paltry earnings were better than nothing. She was able to purchase soap from the commissary. The prison-provided soap is full of lye, she says, which you definitely do not want near your private parts.

Many stuck behind bars are forced to work for cents per hour, or for nothing. While corporate culprits are commonly blamed for exploiting the labor of incarcerated people, it’s actually primarily states and the federal government who take advantage, and make the public unwittingly complicit.

Got a car? Your license plate was likely made by inmates. In New York, inmates make the trash cans. High school desks are often made on the inside; so are glasses for Medicare patients.

Many stuck behind bars are forced to work for cents per hour, or for nothing, for corporations, states and the federal government.

Companies like CorCraft in New York manage labor in the state’s prisons. They’re funded by the state’s budget, and boast they’re New York state’s preferred choice for “office chairs, desks, panel systems, classroom furniture, cleaning, vehicle, and personal care supplies, and more.”

“Summer Sizzles with Classroom Furniture from Corcraft,” their website declares.

They also claim to help in “the department’s overall mission to prepare incarcerated individuals for release through skill development, work ethic, respect and responsibility.”

The people behind the “sizzling” furniture beg to differ.

In the 12 years he was incarcerated in New York state, Dyjuan Tatro was forced to work a variety of jobs, from making desks to license plates. “At the end, I didn’t have a resume,” he tells Truthdig. “I didn’t get one thing to help me be successful on the outside from the prison. No resume, no job experience… Just $40 and a bus ticket — from 12 years of prison labor, I couldn’t use any of it to get a meaningfully paying job.”

Bianca Tylek, the executive director of Worth Rises, an organization devoted to eradicating unjust prison practices, goes further. “It’s slavery,” she tells Truthdig.

The 13th Amendment, which ended slavery, left an important exception: it’s still legal to garnish wages, or more commonly, refuse to pay incarcerated people for forced labor. “As a result, incarcerated people live in slavery-like conditions,” Tylek adds.

Of course, there are nuances. For example, trading community service, like, say, picking up trash, in exchange for not serving time, is one example of a noncarceral approach. But incarceration changes the equation. Tylek notes that it’s not just about the miniscule (or nonexistent) wages. It’s compelling people to work, with the alternative being a stint in solitary and other punishments, like refusing to let them see relatives, consequences that are meted out by guards. She also notes that they have to work in dangerous trades they may not be trained for, including industrial-sized laundries or ovens.

Despite what someone did or did not do, to end up behind bars, coercing them into performing free labor is wrong, Tylek notes. “I like to ask people the question, ‘Under what circumstances is slavery OK?” she tells Truthdig.

“If you can’t answer that question, the answer is, slavery is never OK.”


top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] fubo@lemmy.world 80 points 1 year ago (5 children)

If we're gonna have prisons at all ...

It makes a great deal of sense to offer prisoners pay for doing things to maintain the prison: cleaning the floors, washing the uniforms, leading the singing circle or whatever. That sets them up as members of a self-supporting unit, where you can actually be rewarded for doing things that benefit the other people around you. Then when they get out, they're accustomed to being a person who makes things better for those around them.

But it doesn't make sense to put the prisoners out into the non-prison world as competition for free workers, and then claw back their wages. That sets prisoners up as underclass members of general society which is exactly the condition that leads to a lot of people becoming criminals in the first place. And then when they get out, they've already been "out" as slaves of McDonald's, so that's how they and the world are accustomed to relating to each other.

[–] Skiv@lemmy.world 39 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That sets prisoners up as underclass members of general society which is exactly the condition that leads to a lot of people becoming criminals in the first place

That's the unspoken point. The system is already so drunk on the exploitation of slave labor to the point that all involved actively seek to encourage recidivism. They want all of us for any reason they can shit out.

[–] Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Don't forget that the same prison companies that do this are publicly traded. Recidivism isn't just profitable, it's in the interest of shareholders.

[–] BartsBigBugBag@lemmy.tf 3 points 1 year ago

And often present in state workers pension funds, further exacerbating the conflict of interest.

[–] dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Recidivism is a feature of the current system, not a bug. The prison system is not interested in reforming anyone into respectable members of society; they're only interested in making as much of a buck off of as many inmates as possible, preferably those of the right color. Society is rigged against anyone with a criminal record by design, on all kinds of different levels, to keep anyone previously convicted as an underclass member of society.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

But it doesn’t make sense to put the prisoners out into the non-prison world as competition for free workers

Makes a lot of sense if you're a piece of shit boss who wants to pay less than minimum wage.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] Estiar@lemmy.world 50 points 1 year ago (38 children)

Just because it's legal, doesn't make it right.

I never understood why prisoners get paid so little. They are usually there because they don't have financial stability in the first place. Wouldn't a bit of savings help put them on better footing so not to turn back to crime?

[–] A7thStone@lemmy.world 28 points 1 year ago

Recidivism is the point, also known as it's not a bug it's a feature.

[–] 30mag@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago

Wouldn't a bit of savings help put them on better footing so not to turn back to crime?

For some, absolutely.

[–] torpak@discuss.tchncs.de 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

But who would make cheap license plates then. Who would pay for the profits of the private prison owners or all the predatory companies providing "services" for the prisons and prisoners. I would bet, that most people in Alabama prisons are not white, so you really think Alabama law makers give a rats ass about their prospecs after prison?

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] sdoorex@slrpnk.net 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Perverse incentives at work. If you allow the inmates to build a saving and skills to break the recidivism cycle, you are also working to reduce the size of your labor force.

[–] Fraylor@lemm.ee 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

I was a corrections officer in a very liberal state with a lot of evergreen trees. It is all just $$$$ related. There is a distinct lack of wrap-around services for the incarcerated simply to keep the door revolving.

Sure, they'll come up with these silly "action plans" and "goals to reduce x" x being recidivism, prison violence, PREA, etc. What that turns into is them moving the goalposts so it looks like they're doing something when reality is they want to keep bodies in cells.

Examples of this include changes to what counts as recidivism. Got out of prison, but went back in on a different kind of charge? Not recidivism, according to my state. Gotta be the exact same charge to count. In some cases even a change in the degree of the charge exempts them from recidivism stats.

Regarding violence, they simply made sure to label one inmate in every altercation the aggressor. In doing so they cut prison violence stats in half, since every beating barring multiman fights are now a fighter and victim, not two fighters. Voila, looks good on paper, the prison industrial complex keeps churning.

Prison rape is apparently solved by spray painting a helpline by all the payphones that doesn't do shit except make you look like a snitch for telling about being raped because they bungle every investigation so often that it's impossible to report anything with any kind of anonymity, inmate or not.

Tl;dr it's fucked, it's not changing, private or state ran doesn't matter.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (33 replies)
[–] Chozo@kbin.social 14 points 1 year ago (22 children)

Just FYI, don't post the full article in the post body when sharing on Lemmy. That's how you get C&D letters sent to your instance admins for copyright infringement. Just post a snippet of the relevant text to stay within fair use.

load more comments (22 replies)
[–] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 13 points 1 year ago (8 children)

As a non American, I don't get how such a non-liberal nation is "the leader of the free world".

[–] azulavoir@sh.itjust.works 9 points 1 year ago

centuries of propaganda

[–] SoylentBlake@lemm.ee 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

Simple.

We weren't bombed out from WW2 and back then, we had factories. More than anyone else in fact. America's 'golden age' had nothing to do with American exceptionalism (lols) and everything to do with no competition (but we still ran Keynesian capitalism, the New Deal, back then, so about a 10x bigger piece of the pie went to workers, affording them the American Dream, aka the middle class).

Add to that, the Marshall plan, which paid for Europe's reconstruction but attached to that money came the demand to end colonialism (at least overtly). So America was pretty liberal at the helm for a minute there.

But then came Nixon and the conservatives in the late 60s, Henry Kissinger going on about there being an "excess of democracy" (seriously when I first found out about this in 9th grade it made me sick to my stomach) was saying the quiet part out loud. The rich wanted to scale back the New Deal and return to laissez-faire. Enter Milton Freidman. Cue up Pinochet, Reagan and Thatcher - all peas in a pod. Citizens United. Regulatory Capture. Which brings us to today. Profit over people, wealth caused sociopathy (seriously, the paranoia, greed, and inability to form relationships with any real depth unmoors the psyche from society, thus, empathy atrophies and moral/emotional growth cease. "Money is the root of all evil". Hoarding money, withholding help, in the face of suffering will slowly chip away at you, until yr just as evil as well) and legislatures that are disgustingly cheap to buy. We're seeing the world remade into a giant money extraction farm. And we are the tax chattle. All so the rich never have to work a day of their lives.

Side note; Reagan slogan campaigning was "Make America Great Again". Yep, Trump stole it (prob w/o paying royalties). Trump would go on to mimic Ronnie in another way, by ignoring, thereby exacerbating, a pandemic. Trump with Covid. Reagan with AIDS. Imo Trump's leadership thru Covid resulted in the unnecessary deaths of more Americans than any other thing, ever, of which I hold him responsible. Donald Trump is/was/has been the deadliest thing to Americans, ever. Putin got his money's worth, ffs.

[–] AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Just FYI, we actually still have the factories. We manufacture about 3 times more stuff here in the US today than we did in the 60s and 70s and about 6 to 7 times more than we were during WWII. We just do so with roughly 1/100th to 1/1000th the workforce, because we automated everything.

Some of those manufacturing jobs moved overseas, but many many more were simply automated out of existence.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] 30mag@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I think the answer is money, but it could be something else.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (5 replies)
[–] gregorum@lemm.ee 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

All things considered, since prisoners almost always get some form of compensation (albeit very little) it’s technically indentured servitude which is tantamount to slavery. My only quibble is that, however, and I find it just as reprehensible.

[–] NateNate60@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm not opposed to prison labour, but I think prisoners still ought to be paid minimum wage less tax, and this amount can be put in a sort of savings account for them to responsibly use "on the outside", such as for rent, restitution, &c. Interest on the money can then be put towards a crime victims' fund. That way, I think, everyone gets a fair shake and it's not just a forced labour camp.

[–] nickwitha_k@lemmy.sdf.org 15 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Hard disagreement there. Prison labor is used to suppress wages, so, any labor allowed should be mandatorily equal to the highest prevailing union wage, including benefits, to remove profit motive and harm to society.

[–] gregorum@lemm.ee 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

More than this, since I believe the entire prison system should be reformed from a system of punishment into a system of rehabilitation, much of being in prison should focus on education, job training, and paid works programs.

Obviously, they’re criminals and not everyone would be able to participate, but the vast majority would and would massively benefit from such programs.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 9 points 1 year ago

This is why the Constitution also allows for itself to be amended. So bullshit like this can be changed. It's just pretty fucking hard.

[–] UltraMagnus0001@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

13th amendment

[–] Blackmist@feddit.uk 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Well yeah. It's right there in the 13th. Add a 28th.

Although you should be aware that the 27th says "No law, varying the compensation for the services of the Senators and Representatives, shall take effect, until an election of Representatives shall have intervened." Just in case you were in any doubt as to what kind of day-to-day "running a country" things they actually care about.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] SCB@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Of course, there are nuances. For example, trading community service, like, say, picking up trash, in exchange for not serving time, is one example of a noncarceral approach.

This is the way, and the reason the amendment shouldnt be changed.

The vast majority of prisoners should be out of prison, because prison is a barbaric relic of the Middle ages, and should do compulsory work for the state for minimum wage while living at home.

[–] TechnoBabble@lemm.ee 4 points 1 year ago

Personally I know several people who have been to prison, and many of them absolutely needed some institutionalized treatment.

Well, really they needed a strong community with support, mentors, and motivations to succeed, but in our broken society where community is all but dead, they needed prison.

Prison is a broken hellhole system, but with total reform, it could be a positive tool for society.

Maybe in a utopian society we could do away with prison, but there are a ton of changes we need to make before then.

load more comments
view more: next ›