this post was submitted on 18 Aug 2024
88 points (87.3% liked)

askchapo

22764 readers
10 users here now

Ask Hexbear is the place to ask and answer ~~thought-provoking~~ questions.

Rules:

  1. Posts must ask a question.

  2. If the question asked is serious, answer seriously.

  3. Questions where you want to learn more about socialism are allowed, but questions in bad faith are not.

  4. Try !feedback@hexbear.net if you're having questions about regarding moderation, site policy, the site itself, development, volunteering or the mod team.

founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
 

It's really frustrating, I was talking to someone about how successful China has been in de-radicalization of reactionaries. But they responded to this by saying they're only successful because, and I quote "put them all in concentration camps and killed them"

Has anyone here been successful in deprogramming people about this topic? If so any good sources I can use to dissuade them? I tried telling them that the UN report, if you read it, just says that there's concerns about abuse by internment offcials, and there's no evidence of genocide. But when I say this they just dismiss it as if the UN is controlled by the PRC. It's like a religion to liberals to believe anything bad about China and can get really frustrating.

(page 2) 35 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] citrussy_capybara@hexbear.net 8 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)
[–] tacosanonymous@lemm.ee 3 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (20 children)

If you don’t have sources, why are you engaging in debate?

I don’t think China is straight up doing death camps. They have put them in "re-education centers" and there has been a significant drop in Uyghur birth rates.

The fact that Islamic countries haven’t spoken out could well be that they are also known for religious persecution. Turkey spoke out against China's treatment of Muslims in 2009 and got hit for it. To this day, China reminds them not to mention it. There’s a lot of money moving there plus the belts and roads initiative.

It’s not clear cut. We can’t definitively say that they aren’t abusing human rights. So, maybe we don’t make claims we can’t prove either?

Edit: I forgot to say it works both ways. If they’re making a claim, it should be on them to provide evidence too. So, ask for that.

Edit #2: or take advice from here and use straw man arguments, whataboutisms, and generally attack anyone that doesn’t 100% line up with your opinion.

[–] Yllych@hexbear.net 7 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I see a couple comments you posted before (since removed) excusing the American government for overlooking the Palestinian genocide.

So it's interesting that genocide becomes an important issue for you when it can be used as a cudgel against China.

And fuck off with your whiny edits about how you're just a lil guy getting dogpiled. If you want to have a good faith disagreement about China or whatever that's more than allowed here, providing you make a real attempt. Which you did not.

Sorry you stumbled onto one square milimetre of internet that doesn't follow imperial narratives.You wanna feel validated in your anti China sentiment? Go read or watch any major media outlets, speak with any politician, or talk to 90 percent of random people where you live. They will all share in those opinions.

[–] tacosanonymous@lemm.ee 1 points 4 months ago (3 children)

That’s bullshit. What’s been happening in Palestine is atrocious and America's long-standing policy towards funding it is inexcusable.

The only thing remotely near "excusing" is my staunch belief that letting Trump be the next president bc of the current admin's stance is not helpful or even counterproductive. Especially given the GOP's regressive stance toward gays, trans, education, etc.

[–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 8 points 4 months ago

So what you're saying is that we should support the bankrollers of an ongoing genocide? idk, calling that "not excusing" seems like semantics to me

[–] Yllych@hexbear.net 7 points 4 months ago

So are you going to vote Democrat or PSL

[–] BurgerPunk@hexbear.net 7 points 4 months ago

Trump would do genocide ×2 jagoff

[–] Ram_The_Manparts@hexbear.net 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

there has been a significant drop in Uyghur birth rates.

-The Uyghur people, along with ~50 other officially recognized minority groups, were exempt from the one child policy. When the one child policy was ended a few years ago and was replaced with a more general three child policy, these minority groups were no longer exempted.

-There is a direct correlation between rising living standards and declining birth rates, and China is a relatively rapidly developing country, obviously including the Xinjiang region were most of the Uyghurs live.

IMO these two points go a pretty long way in explaining the drop in Uyghur birth rates.

load more comments (18 replies)
[–] birdcat@lemmy.ml 1 points 4 months ago

dont bother with any of that. instead, tell them the genocide is real and really, really bad, and that they should read a FULL paper by adrian zenz. then you get a low chance that they do that. and if that happens... uh how to put it nicely... there must be serious brain damage involved if they continue believing in it.

load more comments
view more: ‹ prev next ›