this post was submitted on 16 Aug 2024
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No Stupid Questions

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If Biden died tomorrow and Harris took over? and she won the election also. Could she work full two terms or would it count as one when Biden died? (lemmy.world)
submitted 3 months ago by Don_Dickle@lemmy.world to c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world
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[–] BodilessGaze@sh.itjust.works 257 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Harris will be able to serve two terms. The 22nd amendment says:

No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once

The second clause applies to vice presidents taking over, but since there's less than two years left in Biden's term, it won't come into effect.

[–] Don_Dickle@lemmy.world 43 points 3 months ago (3 children)

So hypothetically if Biden died two years into his term then Harris could serve the two plus 8?

[–] PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S@lemmy.sdf.org 73 points 3 months ago (2 children)

... no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected...

So having previously served two years exactly is allowed.

[–] bamboo@lemmy.blahaj.zone 43 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

If we're being pedantic, Harris already served as acting president for 1h25m on November 19, 2021 while Biden underwent a colonoscopy. If hypothetically Biden had died or resigned exactly 2 years into his term (January 20, 2023 12pm ET), and Harris assumed the presidency for the remaining two years, her total time would be over 2 years and she would be ineligible for a second term.

[–] PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S@lemmy.sdf.org 20 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

Yeah I actually brought that up in my top-level reply. But does the two years count the time spent as Acting President?

~~I don't know.~~ It does count, it's part of my top-level comment but I have the shittiest memory in the universe.

If we're being pedantic

I'm always pedantic, except when I'm not 😂

[–] illi@lemm.ee 5 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I'm always pedantic, except when I'm not 😂

So you are not always pedantic. So you are not really pedantic if you said you are always but are not... unless you were pedantic about saying you are not always pedantic?

[–] DudeImMacGyver@sh.itjust.works 1 points 3 months ago

"Mm, yes, shallow and pedantic."

[–] kn33@lemmy.world 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

In that case, could she have her new VP take over for a few hours to negate that time she accumulated previously?

[–] LeFantome@programming.dev 3 points 3 months ago

She would just need to schedule surgery or something.

[–] otp@sh.itjust.works 5 points 3 months ago (1 children)

New conspiracy theory: The reason the US has only incredibly old presidential candidates is because the VPs are pulling all the strings.

[–] LeFantome@programming.dev 3 points 3 months ago

If you mean Dick Cheney, you are not wrong.

[–] Moobythegoldensock@lemm.ee 13 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Yes, hard cutoff is 2.5 terms or 10 years.

[–] 14th_cylon@lemm.ee 13 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (4 children)

I am not sure. From the wording above, it sounds to me that you can get elected as VP and then kill your boss 25 months into the term indefinitely. Loophole!

[–] chemical_cutthroat@lemmy.world 22 points 3 months ago (1 children)

If you are just going to go that route, you don't need to wait the 25 months. Just keep getting picked for vp, ice them immediately and take over. Don't run for reelection, just get the vp nod on the next ticket, rinse and repeat. If you think that sounds preposterous, remember we are on the cusp of re-electing a racist rapist with a spray tan.

[–] BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca 11 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Boss doesn't need to die, just resign. You could literally just have a sham person be elected as the "president" and then resign on Day 1 each time to keep someone as president indefinitely.

Assuming voters played along with that of course.

[–] azimir@lemmy.ml 7 points 3 months ago (1 children)

You don't need the voters. You need the states.

We're about to find out what happens when states refuse to recognize the winner of the Electoral College. Georgia, Arizona, and likely other states are going to fuck the state votes and refuse to certify.

If you can get enough state reps and congressional reps to vote for you each cycle (as VP), then take over from the sham president, you could effectively be president forever.

[–] BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca 4 points 3 months ago

Technically the state reps and congressional reps need to be voted in too, so the voters have some power, even if gerrymandering makes it less than it should be.

[–] snooggums@midwest.social 4 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

SCOTUS approves this comment

[–] Moobythegoldensock@lemm.ee 2 points 3 months ago

Ah, the Putin maneuver.

[–] JimmyBigSausage@lemm.ee 5 points 3 months ago

Yes! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 Queen

[–] Nibodhika@lemmy.world 4 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Wait, so you can't elect someone a third time even if it's not consecutive? For a example in Brazil it's illegal to elect someone third times in a row, but two times, someone else gets elected, then re-elect that person again is okay. In fact the current president has already been president twice in the past.

[–] Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world 12 points 3 months ago

You are correct. Two term limit in the usa.

[–] SolOrion@sh.itjust.works 5 points 3 months ago

No. The US doesn't care if the terms are consecutive or not, it's a hard limit of two terms.

[–] BossDj@lemm.ee 34 points 3 months ago (1 children)

This is all assuming that Trump didn't sue and SCOTUS ends up with some shoddy, asinine interpretation of the constitution that decides Trump is now president for some reason and they all sail away in someone's yacht

[–] P00ptart@lemmy.world 4 points 3 months ago

Harris would be more likely to use that immunity for good use than Biden.

[–] zenharbinger@lemmy.world 21 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

They can use up to 2 years (I think) of a previous term. LBJ could have had 2 full terms plus the remainder he had from JFK.

[–] someguy3@lemmy.world 16 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Other people have answered that it's two years before it counts as a term. I just want to add that they've counted out the exact number of days. They really got this question nailed down.

[–] PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S@lemmy.sdf.org 9 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

I'm not a legal expert so take this with a grain of salt. Assuming the Constitution is followed as it currently written...which is a big assumption...

The two-term limitation comes from the 22nd Amendment. This amendment is, in it's entirety, quoted below:

Section 1

No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once. But this Article shall not apply to any person holding the office of President when this Article was proposed by the Congress, and shall not prevent any person who may be holding the office of President, or acting as President, during the term within which this Article becomes operative from holding the office of President or acting as President during the remainder of such term.

Section 2

This article shall be inoperative unless it shall have been ratified as an amendment to the Constitution by the legislatures of three-fourths of the several States within seven years from the date of its submission to the States by the Congress.

Concerning Section 2, it was ratified so it is law. Not important to answer our question.

If Joe Biden resigns or is permanently incapacitated right as I post this, then Kamala Harris would become ~~acting~~ President until his term ends on January 20th, 2025 for 157 days, 158 if you count today, which is a far cry from two years. (I believe that she was designated Acting President for a few hours while Biden was getting a colonoscopy, so add that to the tally ~~maybe~~ probably not.)

So it looks like, if I read the bolded section correctly, she would be eligible to be elected a second time if she took over from Biden should he be incapacitated or resign.

Edited based on feedback.

[–] dhork@lemmy.world 14 points 3 months ago (2 children)

You are 100% correct, with the one exception that if Biden dies or resigns today, Harris wouldn't become Acting President, she would become the actual 47th President, and Trump would have to reprint all of his 45-47 hats.

[–] bamboo@lemmy.blahaj.zone 19 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Biden resigning now just to make Trump's hats invalid would be the best Dark Brandon move ever.

[–] MindTraveller@lemmy.ca 1 points 3 months ago

He should resign on the 30th of December, or however early he needs to resign so Harris can inaugurate before 1 Jan.

[–] PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S@lemmy.sdf.org 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Thanks 👍. I corrected my response.

[–] dhork@lemmy.world 6 points 3 months ago

From doing some quick reading (instead of work, lol) it sounds like as long as there is a human filling the job as President, when the VP steps in it must be in that Acting capacity. So the President could notify Congress ahead of time that he will be temporarily incapacitated due to a medical procedure, and the VP will act as President for that period of time.

Or, if the President becomes incapacitated without giving that advanced notice, the VP (along with a majority of the President's cabinet) can notify Congress of that fact, and the the VP can assume the Acting President role. Then the President simply informs Congress when he is better again. If there is any dispute over that between the President and VP, Congress gets to ultimately decide whether the President is still incapable, although it would take a 2/3 vote of both Houses to render him incapable.

There seems to be absolutely no difference in terms of the powers of "Acting President" vs. "Actual President". However, since the Acting President is normally a temporary role, one would think that they wouldn't be signing legislation or making appointments unless the President is incapacitated for a long time, since that would piss off their boss.

Dick Cheney just wrote letters to his grandkids while he was Acting President, just to be able to sign them "Acting President".

https://www.historynewsnetwork.org/article/cheney-pens-letter-while-acting-as-potus

[–] 1rre@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

As a follow up, to get a third (and more) term would it be possible to run for vp and have a contract with someone who agrees to run for president then resign immediately after inauguration, or is there a law against that?