Star Trek

I was like you once. Then, one day I realized that i really enjoyed watching first contact. It may even be my favourite of all of the start trek movies, original and TNG.

Eventually, I even appreciated insurrection. It is a little more light hearted than the other TNG movies. When the old crew began to feel younger, it just makes you happy.

That being said, I also watched the first star trek movie again recently, which is easily the one I've watched the least of all of them, and I will say I really enjoyed it. Maybe my tastes are just changing. Maybe my mind is going. Who knows.

I think while Insurrection and Nemesis are widely agreed as bad next gen movies I would argue they're better than the worst original movies.

If you can't acknowledge Motion Picture as bad I don't know that we can have the discussion on a solid base though.

Echoing what others said: the TNG movies felt like long, bigger episodes. While this isn't a bad thing, it didnt have the finality and "oomph" of the TOS movies.

THEY felt like they had big stakes, which carried from movie to movie, and at least for 2-4 (and 6), they picked up the character abd story arcs.

The TNG movies treated each as a standalone story, which again, isn't a bad thing, but the episodic reset button was no good when you had the epic story of the TOS films.

Of all of the TNG movies, First Contact had it, but honestly Nemesis was the one that tried to bring it and completely squandered that feeling of "this can change the entire galaxy and tie to threads from the series." I always felt like there was actually a better movie in there, left on the cutting room floor.

It's the even numbered movies that are good (2,4,6, First Contact, Nemesis). There's even a TVTrope about it.

I feel the same way. I think it's just because the TNG films wanted to turn Picard into Kirk and frankly Patrick Stewart can't carry an action scene (neither can any of the rest of the TNG crew tbh). The TNG cast would have been perfect to do a plot about space whales or a dangerous anomaly flying towards Earth, but they kept trying to do The Wrath of Khan instead.

Also a pox on everyone who says that Motion Picture or The Search for Spock are bad.

Insurrection is like Final Fantasy 8. It had two issues: it was a more nuanced personal adult story and it came directly after First Contact or FF7. In my childhood I was less impressed by insurrection, but as I grew up it became much more something that I appreciate it. Not sure what it is maybe achieving some kind of emotional maturity or epiphany and looking forward and looking backward, because that's what insurrection seems to be about.

While I don't agree with your general assessment I don't think that there is any reason to really argue or go over the top on the particulars. I do think that first Contact is probably the best Star Trek we have and they always be so. There's definitely a strong separation between the two subsets.

I'm currently watching '90s Trek with my SO, and weaving the movies in has been an absolute delight. Watching first Contact after starting season 3 of deep space nine, watching the undiscovered country part of the way into watching Voyager, watching insurrection towards the beginning of the Dominion war, it really just feels so natural.

I think your last sentence answers it for me.

The TNG movies felt like "big episodes" to me. That said, I still liked them fine enough.

It's because they didn't give TNG time off...

Somewhat related, in another thread here, someone else and myself had the idea that All Good Things would have made a better premise for a TNG film and it might have been cool to swap generations and AGTs. Or at least have Q film. Might have felt more cinematic in the sense you’re thinking of.

All that being said, First Contact is my favourite Trek film and I’ve got soft spurs for both generations and insurrection (except for the kid, why does Hollywood think bratty boys are good ideas in movies).

I’m not sure I actually like any of the TOS films that much TBH. I like the vibe of TMP and I like the story Abe overall directing of TUC (prob my fav TOS film). But I’m not sure about the others.

Small sample sizes and idiosyncratic factors.

I agree that the 6 TOS movies on average are better than the 4 TNG movies on average. But if you remove Insurrection (which was fine) and Nemesis (which had a lot of flaws) from the mix, then that is no longer the case - so the question really becomes a narrower 'why is Instruction only okay and what went wrong with Nemesis?', rather than the broader 'TOS vs TNG' way you put it. If they stopped after First Contact, people would rave about the quality of the TNG movies.

Another way of looking at it is that if you alternatively removed TWOK (written and directed by Nicholas Meyer), TVH (written by Nicholas Meyer) and TUC (written and directed by Nicholas Meyer) from the TOS list then the comparison would also no longer be clear cut. In which case you could also phrase your question as 'why was Nicholas Meyer so good at making Star Trek movies?'

Patrick Stewart, and Rick Berman

I continue to be the only person who likes Insurrection. It was like a long episode.

Nemesis failed because it tried to go big and epic and cinematic with the Picard identity crisis. But insurrection was just a story about a planet with a cool anti-aging field that has some internal problems they ultimately needed help resolving.

Reminding me of how much the TNG movies sucked actually makes me a bit less critical of the Picard series.