this post was submitted on 28 Jul 2024
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I watched the video itself. He barely mentioned it and it pretty obviously was one of his on-the-spot incoherent ramblings that he was just trying to form into a somewhat coherent thought. But the media and memes have been milking it for 3 days straight. That was a 1-day milk, 2-day at most. I'm sure he has done something moronic more recently, let's move on.
Why would we move on from his admitting to what we all know, his goal is the end of our Republic.
What the hell are you talking about, we should NOT move on, that's been the problem all along.
"Sure, there's a whole written plan about this you can read for yourself on the internet, but he barely mentioned that he has a plan to become a dictator. It doesn't really mean you should care." - that asshole, probably
Wait I have another one.
"I mean, he's just rambling incoherently. It doesn't mean we shouldn't give him access to our nuclear arsenal." - that same asshole, almost certainly
Wait, are you calling me an asshole? Just because I'm tired about hearing old news for 3 days?
Boy, people on Lemmy are no better at making assumptions about people out of thin air.
I'm honestly baffled by how many upvotes this take is getting. "Let's move on from Trump's fascist rhetoric" is not a take I would expect to be popular with this community.
Exactly, we all already know this. Democrats and those who weren't gonna vote for him anyway already know this and it won't affect their vote. Republicans and those who were gonna vote for him really hope he's a dictator and are glad to hear this. Will continue to vote for him.
Him accidentally stumbling into sorta saying it openly doesn't change anything.
You underestimate how many ignorant non-voters can make or break any election. We need to bring out the roots and the mycelium to guarantee the fascists lose. If we don't win by a wide enough margin, some state legislatures might succeed in overturning close races. They will try to throw out the will of the people of there's enough ambiguity. They failed in 2020, but the last 4 years have been dedicated to making it possible. We need enough swing states to prevent the steal they projected onto us.
No amount of fear or concern is unwarranted. There is no overblowing the threat. We need to scream and yell for our fucking lives, or there will be no tomorrow for many. I will not pretend that your bullshit about "moving on" has any reasonable place in the conversation. We cannot look away from the monster charging us. If we lose concentration, people will die.
I totally agree with you, and in no way Trump should be taken lightly. But my original comment was misinterpreted by many people and it steered some of my following responses (like the one you're replying to now) in a different direction. My original point (laid out in a response to another comment) is that this specific case of blowing things out of proportion by the media causes desensitization and will only reduce the engagement in the future. And this happens often, Trump will say something insane or fascist in his unstructured dementia-induced rambling speech, and then never mention it again. Meanwhile, the media will put it on full blast for a week for the views. People will focus on that one-off stupid thing he said and miss the real issues with him and his party that need to be address.
At this point I'll admit that using "let's move on" was a little bit triggering and acted like a red herring. Everybody thought I mean "let's move on from discussing Trump being fascist", while I really meant "let's focus on actual issues".
That makes some sense, but Trump being a fascist dictator is an issue that needs to be talked about, especially for the left wing people who think they can sit this election out for some bullshit reason.
Casual complacency when faced with actual dictator rhetoric? Bold strategy.
Yeah man, a presidential candidate with a real chance of winning is telling his base that he'll get rid of elections as president, and this is something that his biggest wealthiest supporters actually want him to do. Multibillion dollar right-wing think tanks that work directly with him are openly discussing how the "Democratic experiment" has failed, and that Washington should be "burned to save America".
He checks off just about every other box on the fascism checklist too, including genocide...
But I would hate to overreact, so I'll just pretend it didn't happen.
/s
You're one of those people that believes you shouldn't believe someone when they tell you who they are.
Can I borrow $50?
Aaaaaand that's how you end up with an authoritarion fascist regime.
You end up with an authoritarian regime by saying things everybody already knows? I'll be careful not to tell people that water is wet.
Relax, everybody, he only talks about being a dictator because he has brain worms!
Up the shut fuck.
Why is Lemmy so rich in people hell-bent on interpreting comments in the worst possible light, then make assumptions about the author based on that interpretation of a single comment? Oh and then proceed to be rude, in one shape or form.
Do better, people. Don't be jerks.
Could the response be based on the things you wrote? No, surely it's everyone else who's wrong.
My guy. Your comment explicitly says "let's move on" from mentioning that The Idiot is screaming the quiet part, not for the first time. Your dismissive minimization of this event is that he's just rambling incoherently. About fascism. About the fascism he plans to do. After the failed coup d'etat, and the repeated efforts to prevent, ignore, or overturn the previous election. Just locker-room braggadocio, right?
Maybe - maybe! - people are still talking about it, after a whole seventy-two hours, because it's FUCKING TERRIFYING.
Not everyone is wrong. But it happens occasionally and then people pile on. I'm guessing it's just people looking for an outburst.
My comment says "media and memes should stop milking it". Which is the only thing that they are doing. There's nothing to discuss. This isn't news, we all already know he's a fascist dictator. The only problem is that some people support it. You should've started being terrified long ago when he was acting like a dictator, not when he accidentally mumbled being one.
Right, because I learned all this yesterday. I'm the one with a comment that's downplaying how bad this is. You are explaining to me why a dozen people felt that brushing aside this latest horror deserved blunt objection.
Totally my fault for saying this known fascist "barely mentioned" the end of democracy, in what was surely just extemporaneous regurgitation of what his inner circle constantly floats. I shouldn't have called people flipping the fuck out, over that actionable threat to the entire country, "milking it." Glibly blaming "media" is a common dog-whistle and must be why people are "hell-bent on interpreting" shitheel beliefs, as surely as dismissing their plain-English reading of my own words as twisting them through dishonest motivation, by saying they're "hell-bent" on that "worst possible light." All made worse by complaining people "make assumptions" by responding directly to my stated beliefs.
I meant something else entirely and used all the wrong words.
My bad.
I wasn't downplaying anything, after everything discussed, you still insist that I somehow don't care about what he said.
I would also not complain if people engaged in good faith and were trying to politely convince me that I'm somehow wrong. But instead it was just assumptions and insults. Yes, I'm absolutely not in the wrong for stating my reasonable, but perhaps controversial opinion. It's the people who attack and be rude who are in the wrong.
But anyway, while we were arguing here media has already moved on to another thing, so all good here. Apparently, he said something like "criminals are criminals".
I am telling you what you explicitly wrote.
This is what those words mean.
People accurately paraphrasing the egregious parts, and telling you to stop saying that shit, is a common form of good-faith criticism. We're not "assuming" anything. We read what you wrote. Whatever secrets you keep in your heart don't fucking matter - we speak English, you wrote 'he's just blathering,' we object. Learn something from the experience.
Saying "shut the fuck up" (even in scrambled order), "this asshole" (from another user), and even "stop saying that shit" isn't "good-faith" criticism. Good-faith criticism is "I disagree because ". I said absolutely nothing egregious and offended nobody. If you think you see something egregious in what I said then you misinterpreted my words.
You said people aren't making assumptions, but there's a couple comments in this thread who said that I'm supporting Trump. Others, like you, insist that I'm downplaying it and don't care that he's a fascist, which I have neither said nor implied. There's of course a couple reasonable responses, too.
Now, one last attempt to put the record straight. Yes, I still think he stumbled into saying it accidentally. By that I DON'T mean he isn't thinking it or doesn't mean to do it. I only mean that we should be focusing on more concrete terrible things that he has said and done, of which there are plenty. Media has run with this specific event for so long only because it's easy to sensationalize due to the way they report it, it seems like he stated it clearly and deliberately. Because that's what I thought when I was seeing all the news and thought "damn, did he just straight up said that? has he become that bold". Then I watched the actual video and saw that he just kinda walked himself into blabbering it and played it off as a joke. If a person on the fence will see these the news, go check the actual video, see that it's blown out of proportion they might ignore the future criticisms of Trump. And media caused that for a couple extra views.
Anyway, I don't intend to continue this empty discussion. I'll just leave you (general you) with an advice to not put words into people’s mouths, and not to insult/attack people you don't know. We will all benefit from it. Cheers.
Good faith means "sincere." Not "polite."
YOU DON'T GET TO DECIDE IF OTHER PEOPLE ARE OFFENDED.
The words you wrote are wrong, actually. You are clutching your pearls as though half a dozen people telling you why and how, in fucking detail, must be completely mistaken, and also dishonest, and also faking it. Fuck you. If you're not trolling then it's really goddamn difficult to discern your behavior from that of a deliberately infuriating liar. You can take that feedback and learn from it, or you can continue to be bewildered the next time everybody acts like the words you say are the wrong fucking words.
I really felt the need to respond, but I promise this is the last one this time.
Goof faith means that you make an honest attempt at understand what a person is telling you and if you disagree try to change their opinion with arguments. Saying "shut the fuck up" on your first comment does not fit into that picture.
If somebody gets offended by what you said doesn't mean that the statement is offensive. It's ultimately subjective, yes, but if we were to label things, then it's decided by a general consensus. If I, for example, tell a Christian that I don't believe in their God and they get offended my statement doesn't become offensive, it's on them for getting offended. With that in mind, nothing I said in my original comment would be considered offensive by a rational person.
I'm yet to see how what I said was wrong. Let me do a brief rundown of the responses:
I have already shown that this is a misinterpretation in my previous comment to you.
You don't get fascist regimes for holding the media accountable. But again, misinterpretation.
Just an attack based on some assumptions.
Honestly, I'm not even fully sure what exactly you meant, but I'm guessing you're implying that I'm trolling? Which I'm not, as you can see from my rational explanation from the previous comment. Not trolling, not lying. Just don't like when the media cries wolf for views and then desensitizes people to real issues.
In conclusion, nobody interpreted my words correctly and thus can't be telling me that what I was trying to say is incorrect, and few really tried. Perhaps I should have been more clear from the get-go, I just assumed that people would understand what I meant. But my previous comment should clear everything up.
And I'm not defending myself here. I'm just trying to get people be more understanding and less reactionary. I have higher standards for Lemmy than I have for Reddit and the rest of the social platforms. But that might be the hopeless romantics/optimist in me. I'll learn from this and lower my standards.
Have a good one!
"If we ignore everyone explaining the unavoidable meaning of my own words, it must be their fault they object to what I said and how I defend it, and also I'm not defending it, and also also I'm lowering my expectations because you're all so stupid."
"And I couldn't figure out who had brain worms in your one-sentence reply with one subject."
You are an idiot.
Good luck. Apparently nothing else will help.
He said it 3 times and it's pretty obvious and clear what he means.
Am I right that the most charitable possible interpretation is that he only needs four more years to permanently fix the country, and then he’ll leave office, and the country will be so great forever that it’d be OK not to vote - because the country is so perfect and beautiful?
It’s a stupid thing to say given the horrible horrible possible other interpretation (dictator for life). But I wonder what his buddies and apologists would claim he meant.
No, my actual interpretation is explained in another response. I'm still very confused how people think that I'm in any way pro-Trump, while I called him moronic in the same comment. And this was your "most charitable" interpretation?
Tl;dr: I was taking about media blowing it out of proportion based on how he said it, causing desensitization.
Fair point. You seemed to have the most nuanced response in the thread, so offering too little context I jumped into a question for you about what he could have actually meant if not “I’ll be a dictator forever”. And indeed, I found some apologists responding to criticism, and they did sound like they took what I imagined was the most charitable interpretation of what the ex-president said.
Were I in the media, I’d try to run a headline that squashed in that felon president said something shocking libs who interpreted dictator rhetoric while proponents only heard boasting or positive thinking.
Yeah, I've been know for being too brief for my own good.