this post was submitted on 26 Jul 2023
846 points (96.4% liked)

Technology

60112 readers
2593 users here now

This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.


Our Rules


  1. Follow the lemmy.world rules.
  2. Only tech related content.
  3. Be excellent to each another!
  4. Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
  5. Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
  6. Politics threads may be removed.
  7. No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
  8. Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
  9. Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed

Approved Bots


founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Thousands of authors demand payment from AI companies for use of copyrighted works::Thousands of published authors are requesting payment from tech companies for the use of their copyrighted works in training artificial intelligence tools, marking the latest intellectual property critique to target AI development.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] Telodzrum@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago (3 children)

There's a difference between a sapient creature drawing inspiration and a glorified autocomplete using copyrighted text to produce sentences which are only cogent due to substantial reliance upon those copyrighted texts.

All AI creations are derivative and subject to copyright law.

[–] dystop@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

There’s a difference between a sapient creature drawing inspiration and a glorified autocomplete using copyrighted text to produce sentences which are only cogent due to substantial reliance upon those copyrighted texts.

But the AI is looking at thousands, if not millions of books, articles, comments, etc. That's what humans do as well - they draw inspiration from a variety of sources. So is sentience the distinguishing criteria for copyright? Only a being capable of original thought can create original work, and therefore anything not capable of original thought cannot create copyrighted work?

Also, irrelevant here but calling LLMs a glorified autocomplete is like calling jet engines a "glorified horse". Technically true but you're trivialising it.

[–] tenitchyfingers@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yes. Creative work is made by creative people. Writing is creative work. A computer cannot be creative, and thus generative AI is a disgusting perversion of what you wanna call “literature”. Fuck, writing and art have always been primarily about self-expression. Computers can’t express themselves with original thoughts. That’s the whole entire point. And this is why humanistic studies are important, by the way.

[–] Methylman@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I absolutely agree with the second half, guided by Ian Kerr's paper "Death of the AI Author"; quoting from the abstract:

Claims of AI authorship depend on a romanticized conception of both authorship and AI, and simply do not make sense in terms of the realities of the world in which the problem exists. Those realities should push us past bare doctrinal or utilitarian considerations about what an author must do. Instead, they demand an ontological consideration of what an author must be.

I think the part courts will struggle with is if this 'thing' is not an author of the works then it can't infringe either?

[–] tenitchyfingers@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Courts already expressed themselves, and what they said is basically copyright can’t be claimed for the throw up AIs come up with, which means corporations can’t use it to make money or sue anyone for using those products. Which means generated AI products are a whole bowl of nothing legally, and have no identity nor any value. The whole reason commissions are expensive is that someone has spent money, time and effort to make the thing you asked of them, and that’s why corresponding them with money is right.

Also, why can’t AI be used to automatize the shit jobs and allow us to do the creative work? Why are artists and creatives being pushed out of doing the jobs only humans can do? Like this is the thing that makes me furious: that STEM bros are blowing each other in the fields over humans being pushed out of humanity. Without once thinking AI is much more apt at replacing THEIR jobs, but I’m not calling for their jobs to be removed. This is just a dystopic reality we’re barreling towards, and there are people who are HAPPY about humans losing what makes us human and speeding toward pure, total, complete misery. That’s why I’m emotional about this: because art is only, solely made by humans, and people create art to communicate something they have inside. And only humans can do that - and some animals, maybe. Machines have nothing inside. They are nothing, they are only tools. It’s like asking a hammer to write its own poetry, it’s just insane.

[–] pandacoder@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago

The trivialization doesn't negate the point though, and LLMs aren't intelligence.

The AI consumed all of that content and I would bet that not a single of the people who created the content were compensated, but the AI strictly on those people to produce anything coherent.

I would argue that yes, generative artificial stupidity doesn't meet the minimum bar of original thought necessary to create a standard copyrightable work unless every input has consent to be used, and laundering content through multiple generations of an LLM or through multiple distinct LLMs should not impact the need for consent.

Without full consent, it's just a massive loophole for those with money to exploit the hard work of the masses who generated all of the actual content.

[–] Methylman@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The thing is these models aren't aiming to re-create the work of any single authors, but merely to put words in the right order. Imo, If we allow authors to copyright the order of their words instead of their whole original creations then we are actually reducing the threshold for copyright protection and (again imo) increasing the number of acts that would be determined to be copyright protected

[–] planish@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago

But for text to be a derivative work of other text, you need to be able to know by looking at the two texts and comparing them.

Training an AI on a copyrighted work might necessarily involve making copies of the work that would be illegal to make without a license. But the output of the AI model is only going to be a for-copyright-purposes derivative work of any of the training inputs when it actually looks like one.

Did the AI regurgitate your book? Derivative work.

Did the AI spit out text that isn't particularly similar to any existing book? Which, if written by a human, would have qualified as original? Then it can't be a derivative work. It might not itself be a copyrightable product of authorship, having no real author, but it can't be secretly a derivative work in a way not detectable from the text itself.

Otherwise we open ourselves up to all sorts of claims along the lines of "That book looks original, but actually it is a derivative work of my book because I say the author actually used an AI model trained on my book to make it! Now I need to subpoena everything they ever did to try and find evidence of this having happened!"