this post was submitted on 27 Jul 2023
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[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 year ago (6 children)

Uh huh.

So why did they need to drop two?

[–] avapa@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Japan was unwilling to surrender for a long time even though Japanese cities got bombed on a near daily basis near the end of the war. The US gambled on, for a lack of a better word, the wow-factor of the atomic bomb. They guessed correctly that Japan’s leaders would assume that there’s no way in hell the US could produce another one of these “special” bombs. They dropped the second one to basically say: “Hey, we got a huge stockpile of these things so we can do this as long as you like”. Or to put it simply: It was a show of force. When Nagasaki got hit Japanese leaders were in a council meeting about the Hiroshima bombing and the Soviet’s declaration of war on Japan and even after the news arrived in Tokyo half the cabinet was still insistent on their own terms of surrender. They didn’t know how many more bombs America had and that fear played a huge part in Hirohito’s decision to end the war after more than 14 hours of debate that day.

[–] Fried_out_Kombi@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Exactly. Simply having enough fissile material for a bomb was a huge limiting factor for building a bomb. It took several years of refining for the US to have enough for the Trinity Test, Fat Man, and Little Boy. Any physicists in Japan at the time had to have known that fissile material was a limiting factor, given that the theoretical concept of an atomic bomb was well-known physics by the time. The second bomb was to prove Japan couldn't count on the US having exhausted all their fissile material on the first bomb.

[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml -1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It was a show of force.

Yes, it was, but not for Japan. If they had given Japan more than three days between Hiroshima and Nagasaki to think it over they'd have likely surrendered, but defeating Japan wasn't really the point. It was a show of force for the rest of the world (especially the USSR) to say "we are the new rulers of the world, bow down and submit or we'll glass you too".

[–] MrVilliam@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The first one to prove that it exists, the second to prove that America had the resources, manufacturing, and still had the balls to do it again even after seeing what it did. America dropped one to get the world's attention and respect, and again to establish horrifying dominance. "I can do this all day" energy.

[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago

and still had the balls to do it

i.e. to prove they were evil lol

[–] Bread@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 year ago

Unconditional surrender was not assured the first time. It was the second time. The Japanese do not give up easily.

[–] iviattendurefort@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The conventional ordinance dropped on Tokyo killed many more people than Little Boy killed in Hiroshima. The Japanese barely surrendered after the nuclear attacks. I would suggest listening to Dan Carlin's Hardcore History miniseries Countdown to Armageddon if you want to know more.

[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml -4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

lol wtf does "barely surrendered" mean? It was an unconditional surrender that happened less than 2 weeks after Hiroshima!

Again, the first bomb is debatable and I'm not interested in arguing about that. But the second was unjustified. 3 fucking days

[–] iviattendurefort@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The Japanese were prepared to fight to the last man, woman, or child to defend the home islands. They were geared for war in a way that is hard to understand from a modern perspective. They were propagandized heavily.

The other thing to recognize was that the USSR had declared war on Japan the day before Fat Man was dropped on Nagasaki. This violated the Soviet-Japanese non-aggression pact. Before this there was hope that the Soviets could advocate for better terms for Japanese surrender. The Japanese Supreme Council was firmly opposed to ending the war. After Nagasaki, Hirohito intervened in the council and ended the war.

[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml -4 points 1 year ago

This is propaganda. The Japanese aren't bug people. They wouldn't actually fight to the last man, woman, or child.