cross-posted from: https://slrpnk.net/post/11237867
this post was submitted on 09 Jul 2024
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It's not OK to treat the undocumented like slaves either FWIW.
We treat our own people like slaves, what makes them so special?
You are super close to seeing the actual point.
You’re close to the point, just keep on down that path a little farther
That it's ok to let prisoners work to pay for their own housing and food instead of the taxpayers?
Profits are being made off of prison labor! That can only mean the amount they produce is greater than what they receive from the state. So they're not just working for food and housing - they're working to make someone else richer.
I'm not saying this is not true but profit is made off all labor. Show me some good sources when you get time, I am genuinely interested
If you want an example, the hellhole prison nicknamed "Angola" (because it's full of black people haha so funny) is a good case study for why this is slavery and not just prisoners paying their way through prison.
They're forced to do work or get solitary confinement, make $0.02/hr under inhumane conditions, punish people who get heat stroke, don't provide shade or fans or clean water (literally, they have to drink dirty water if they don't use their teeny wages to buy water) or anything, in temperatures that exceed 113°F in Louisiana. They're forced to water plants with paper cups, pick rotten fruit by hand, weeding by hand, it's all totally pointless shit an the cruelty is the point.
Why is it supposed to be funny? It's true that the majority is black and Angola is a nation in Africa, is that embarrassing to blacks? I asked for a source but I looked it up, It does look pretty tough. So you are saying that because of LAs barbaric shit? It does sound really cruel but it doesn't sound like it's pointless work, just sounds like AG work. So you want to use this case to abolish any work opportunities for inmates across the US? When I was in prison, I was everything from a janitor to a highway department worker to a rehab program mentor..Hell at one point I raised 3 dogs that are successful service animals now. these jobs supported me with enough money for basic snacks, phone calls and toiletries.. They helped keep me alive because I was facing 20 years at 100% and had a lot of suicidal thoughts. Anyways, what I'm trying to say is that no one is going to listen if you are going for the "all or nothing" stance because a lot of work programs do help.
Calling the slave plantation "Angola" to mock the Black people forced to work there is clearly a reference to America's history of chattel slavery of Black people.
The heat at the Angola slave plantation literally kills people and causes them to self harm.
Oh did I mention this is a juvenile prison?
Death to America
The concept of prison labor isn't inherently bad, I have nothing against gulags for example.
I want to abolish the ability to profit from it because it incentivised the creation of the largest prison population on Earth. America is literally the worst on Earth, by the numbers, and it's solely because of the perverse incentive structure created by for-profit prison slave labor.
I also think much of the work is pointless and sadistic makework (like forcing people to water fields with paper cups in extreme heat - how is that supposed to make people not want to kill themselves?) That's just torture for the fun of the prison guards, not work.
It is kinda funny tbh but you are hyper focused on Angola. You don't believe juveniles should be punished for rape and murder? So do you do any kind of work or activism against this place or prison labor for profit? Have you ever visited Angola or any prison ? Have you seen these fields? You seem really passionate and I think if you will get your hands dirty then you could help make some significant changes.
Being in prison is already punishment. Torturing them in the heat and Sun is just pointless sadism.
I can barely convince myself not to drive into oncoming traffic on the way home from work.
Yesterday I beat the shit out of myself with my bare fists because of the heat and stress of factory labor. Literally punched myself in the face over and over as hard as I could. I look like I was swarmed by bees.
I think if I put more on my plate I'd do something to get myself put in prison.
You think I'm the first person to give a shit? Many people much smarter and stronger than me are fighting against modern slavery, all I can do is support them. I'd fuck it up.
That maybe we shouldn’t be treating anyone like that and that if we are going to have people work, yes even prisoners, should be paid a fair rate instead of pennies on the dollar.
I'm gonna pass on that and I've been locked up working those jobs. What are we treating them like? They have a choice..If you don't want to, they don't make you but believe me..you want those jobs..The fair rate is calculated after working in the cost of your housing, a victims compensation fund, your food and medical care.. plus you get a reduction on your sentence and you aren't institutionalized as bad..you never thought about that did you Toby? Now get to picking that cotton boy!
Yes, you just seem like such a good person.
I’m gonna stick with we should treat all people as people, not property.
Especially because in America there is a damn good chance they have done nothing wrong.
I'm definitely not a good person.and I hope you never meet the majority of the people I was around..Sure a few of them might be innocent of what they were serving time for but they have done a lot more than what they were caught doing and a lot of them spend their time networking with others in their trade and learn how to not make mistakes the next time.
You are confusing paid labor by choice with forced labor under fear of solitary.
Both exist, ones less bad. People are talking about the forced labor thing though, not the "working the kitchens" for 3$ a day thing.
Edit: would help if you'd read the damn post
I was in a discussion with someone else about a different subject.It would help if you read all my damn posts. But labor vs solitary is a choice therefore not forced bitch boy if you want to get technical
Well honestly I tried putting myself into this position mentally, to figure out how I might react. Would I refuse and take the punishment on principle? Do I think I'm strong enough to go through solitary for an extended period of time without permanent damage mentally?
The problem for me is that in that scenario I would feel that my punishment is prison, the loss of freedom, and that I was not sentenced to either slave labor or solitary confinement, both of which I consider immoral under any condition.
There is technically a choice, but that seems pointlessly reductive. I'd have to ask you if you feel like someone given the choice between losing their leg or arm would then be more responsible for the decision than the person who cut the limb off?
I think there is some distinction to be made between free action and reaction. If you are put in a position where you are forced to make a choice, then its not just the individuals fault for the choice they make.
Where I'm from in the US..You get time off your sentence, a better chance at parole, and a small check at the end of month depending on what you were doing..if you are lucky, you get to be outside on a golf course or a dog pound..I think mine was around 67 bucks a month..It's a no brainer for most people unless you just like sitting around watching TV and listening to people bicker/fight/od all day. Yoda, you think you are?
Well I will say ive done that last part, its not so bad playing cards and watching tv all day, what's hard is not having any control of who's around you and where they go. If you end up with considerate people its not so bad.
I dont think the choice is between hanging out in the rec room or working for too little pay. We are talking about specifically when inmates are forced to work, or endure punishments.