this post was submitted on 04 Jul 2024
144 points (98.0% liked)

the_dunk_tank

15914 readers
12 users here now

It's the dunk tank.

This is where you come to post big-brained hot takes by chuds, libs, or even fellow leftists, and tear them to itty-bitty pieces with precision dunkstrikes.

Rule 1: All posts must include links to the subject matter, and no identifying information should be redacted.

Rule 2: If your source is a reactionary website, please use archive.is instead of linking directly.

Rule 3: No sectarianism.

Rule 4: TERF/SWERFs Not Welcome

Rule 5: No ableism of any kind (that includes stuff like libt*rd)

Rule 6: Do not post fellow hexbears.

Rule 7: Do not individually target other instances' admins or moderators.

Rule 8: The subject of a post cannot be low hanging fruit, that is comments/posts made by a private person that have low amount of upvotes/likes/views. Comments/Posts made on other instances that are accessible from hexbear are an exception to this. Posts that do not meet this requirement can be posted to !shitreactionariessay@lemmygrad.ml

Rule 9: if you post ironic rage bait im going to make a personal visit to your house to make sure you never make this mistake again

founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] iie@hexbear.net 17 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Multivariate analysis indicates that economic elites and organized groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on U.S. government policy, while average citizens and mass-based interest groups have little or no independent influence.

They don’t control the media either. They are brainwashed, disenfranchised, and overworked. The establishment has decades of experience manufacturing consent, and when that doesn’t work, they ignore the people outright. 70% of Americans want public healthcare and it’s not even in the realm of political possibility.

[–] yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Correct. For all practical purposes, most human beings are just animals — scared, stupid, and impulsive. You live in their world. They outnumber you 10 to 1. So vote in their elections, or don’t. But don't call them disenfranchised. There’s nothing disenfranchised about those shitbags driving $70k pickup trucks eating meat at every meal. At best they’re complicit, at worst little more than zombies.

As for the survey you just cited, try this. Put out a poll asking:

  1. “Do you want to save the rainforest?” My guess is 90% will answer yes. Now ask:

  2. “Would you be willing to stop eating cows to save the rainforest?” 2% might answer yes.

That’s why people elect politicians who act against their best interests: because their best interests and their ugliest desires often misalign.

[–] iie@hexbear.net 4 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

You have a few days to read his before I get embarrassed about writing a wall of text.

most human beings are just animals — scared, stupid, and impulsive

Most of us think and act as our circumstances demand. We believe what those around us believe, because we lack the energy, time, resources, and education to build a worldview from the ground up. Even here on hexbear, we absorb consensus views from our peers rather than each of us individually verifying every detail. We trust the collective intelligence, media literacy, skepticism, and good will of our community, and we trust our process of consensus.

The way propaganda works is by hijacking the consensus. Capitalists control the major mouthpieces of our society - the media and the politicians, and increasingly, the social media. They run astroturf campaigns. They launder false stories through legitimate media outlets. They tell you Saddam has WMDs and Gaddafi is conducting a genocide, and they drum it up into a consensus. Soon all your friends, family, and coworkers believe it too. When they're not lying, or lying by omission, they propagandize by emphasis, by choice of words, by slant. They shape what is permissible to think and say. Propaganda works, and it works on everyone, including you and I. Cultural attitudes about gas-guzzling vehicles were largely manufactured by the oil industry and its media cronies. Those attitudes did not arise organically. Propaganda experts hijacked the consensus and changed the culture.

nothing disenfranchised about those shitbags driving $70k pickup trucks eating meat at every meal

As individual consumers, we can only do so much. We can't vote with our wallets to change the power grid, transportation infrastructure, manufacturing, or commercial supply lines. There are some individual choices we can make, but they would need to be coordinated on a mass scale, and even then the impact would be limited. Sooner or later, change must come from government, and as the 2014 statistical analysis I cited showed, we do not control our government. The public has "little or no independent influence" on public policy. Whenever we disagree with capitalists on an issue, we lose. Sometimes capitalists use their stranglehold on the media to gin up public consensus, other times, as with healthcare in the US, they don't even bother, because they don't have to. Policy is written by money and power and leverage, not by votes. It doesn't even align that well with public sentiment.

The other issue is coordination. Putting the onus of change on the individual is like expecting wildebeests to cross the river one at a time. Individuals don't make change, coordinated movements make change. The issue there is that capitalist states are experts at crushing or co-opting movements. Huge volumes of propaganda, astroturfing, even jailing or assassinating movement leaders, like the six BLM leaders who died in Ferguson under suspicious circumstances in the years after the George Floyd protests. The situation is infinitely worse outside the imperial core, where entire governments can be toppled, nations invaded, and populations starved by sanctions. Capitalists have violently killed millions of people who tried to bring about collective change, including worker's rights, rights for women and minorities, education, healthcare, and environmentalism.

Even modest gains, like the 8 hour work week, and the ostensible right to unionize, have required significant struggle and risk, and since then decades of Cold War propaganda have eroded the class consciousness and solidarity that made that organizing possible.

“Would you be willing to stop eating cows to save the rainforest?” 2% might answer yes.

If you controlled the media and the government the way capitalists do now, I bet in ten years you could persuade the public to reduce red meat consumption at least by half.

Maybe not you, literally, but say a democratic socialist government. Do things for people, meaningfully improve their lives, and they'll start to listen.