this post was submitted on 03 Jul 2024
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[–] retrospectology@lemmy.world 155 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (5 children)

This is why conservativism is just not compatible with democracy. You can't have a society that adapts to a changing world and growing understanding of reality if people's political ideology boils down to "We need to ignore new information and instead keep trying the failed ideas of the past."

This is why when the Democratic party talk about the need for "balance" between the two parties it's so toxic.

[–] TimeSquirrel@kbin.melroy.org 57 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (6 children)

I don't know if this is conservatism anymore. My Grandfather was conservative, and he was an engineer. He would have loathed the amount of misinformation and straight up lies being flung around these days. As much as his views were disagreeable, he never tried to manipulate or lie to anybody and always wanted to get to the truth of things. This is something else.

[–] retrospectology@lemmy.world 61 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (3 children)

It's still the end result, and while your grandfather might've been an engineer and accepted some science as an individual, his political ideology is what has contributed to the slow creep of increasing ignorance because his conservative views are what prompt him to vote for conservative politicians who obstruct attempts to improve society for all of us. Conservativism degrades a society's ability to access the truth.

There actually is no reasonable form of conservativism. You're either looking for ways to improve and integrate new understanding about the world based on the best information available to you at the time, or you're trying to preserve ideas simply because they existed beforehand.

It would be like if someone brought a newer, safer design to your grandfather and he rejected it simply in the interest of preserving the old design because its old. He couldn't function as an engineer if he applied his conservative thinking to his work, so I don't see how people expect that philosophy to work in politics either. There is no effective scientist who, upon recieving new information, rejects it because it doesn't fit with what they already believe, they try to adapt their model to fit the new facts.

We accept conservativism as some kind of immutable facet of politics, but we don't actually need to. Making itself seem intrinsic is how the ideology survives, but really all it is is the remnant ideology leftover ftom the death of monarchy, it was injected into our politics early on in order to protect an aristocratic class, allowing it to continue on in a new form (corporate oligarchy).

[–] Zombiepirate@lemmy.world 15 points 4 months ago

Very well said.

I think it's also worth mentioning that conservatism is an inherently reactionary and counter-revolutionary ideology: it is primarily concerned with protecting the powerful by entrenching privilege and maintaining the structural oppression of the underclasses.

[–] Delta_V@lemmy.world 4 points 4 months ago
[–] Beetschnapps@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Yea basically you don’t accept “states rights” blindly unless you’re willing to overlook “other things” and accept them in the back of your mind.

What you look past is more telling than what you say.

[–] negativenull@lemmy.world 11 points 4 months ago

It's regressivism now

[–] UltraGiGaGigantic@lemm.ee 7 points 4 months ago

Capitalism was always destined to progress to an advanced terminal stage.

[–] snooggums@midwest.social 6 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Sounds like your grandpa might have been conservative as in slow to change.

Nowadays, conservative in politics means deepthroating fascism.

[–] grue@lemmy.world 4 points 4 months ago

Conservatism has always been authoritarian. The notion of "slow to change" has only ever been a fig leaf to obfuscate that fact.

[–] grue@lemmy.world 2 points 4 months ago

I don’t know if this is conservatism anymore.

It's a return to what conservatism always was.

[–] hypnoton 2 points 4 months ago

I don't believe actual conservatism exists anymore.

That's why I call those clowns "servatives." Take the "con" out of "conservative" and you get "servative."

Dwight D. Eisenhower was a conservative.

[–] just_another_person@lemmy.world 11 points 4 months ago (3 children)

Conservatism isn't compatible with a lot of things in the modern age: social programs, military industrial complex during arms races spanning decades, late-stage capitalism in a social Republic...etc. I wouldn't say Democracy in general though.

Also, these whack jobs are not Conservatives with a capital 'C', they are Radicalized Religious Zealots at a minimum. They think their way is the "right way", and are on some mission to ensure everyone else gets on board, or else. It's how they approach everything.

The nutty thing about Candace Owens is that as much as she is a liar and scammer, she's just jumping into the deep end with all these people who are working against her own best interests. She's not completely stupid, so she must realize this, but refuses to be deterred because she thinks she will somehow benefit in the end. To what end that is for her, who knows. She's working hard to enable a bunch of racist, misogynistic, assholes though, but she's also profiting from it and couldn't care less about who she's impacting elsewhere with her vitriolic bullshit.

[–] retrospectology@lemmy.world 11 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Also, these whack jobs are not Conservatives with a capital ‘C’, they are Radicalized Religious Zealots at a minimum

Yes, there are degrees of commitment, but the normie conservatives are still enabling the extremists and play a key part in the progression from democracy to fascism, you can't just flip from democracy to a fascist state, you need "respectable" conservatives to start to ease people towards the notion. There's still no value in their conservative leanings, even if it's watered down.

I don't want any lead in my water ideally, even if slight amounts aren't immediately harmful, the lead traces in the water has no benefit regardless of the degree.

[–] UltraGiGaGigantic@lemm.ee 5 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Radicalized Religious Zealots

Run of the mill, average religious people. Religion is one of the many reasons the working class must never disarm. The cult followers literally cannot help themselves. At some point, they all will work to make their delusions your reality.

[–] just_another_person@lemmy.world 1 points 4 months ago

Well that's not true. I know plenty of religious people who don't give a shit about what other people do or believe, and that's the standard. Anyone who is out trying to recruit, guilt, or force fear onto others in the name of religion is absolutely just a Zealot (capital "Z"), and that is not the standardnof behavior for what I would say is most people.

There's certainly something about the Southern US that really churns these pieces of shit out like a factory though.

[–] SkyezOpen@lemmy.world 0 points 4 months ago

It worked out for Dave rubin. Wait, no it didn't. And then he doubled down on hate speech so people would forget he was gay and having surrogate kids.

[–] Hominine@lemmy.world 0 points 4 months ago

I've not heard the Democratic Party demand a balance between themselves and Republicans as a policy plank. Even if an individual had done so, It seems foolhardy to blame a large tent of fairly reasonable people for the incestuousness that has become conservatism.