this post was submitted on 23 Jun 2024
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Big brain tech dude got yet another clueless take over at HackerNews etc? Here's the place to vent. Orange site, VC foolishness, all welcome.

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Our path to better working conditions lies through organizing and striking, not through helping our bosses sue other giant mulitnational corporations for the right to bleed us out.

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[–] Evinceo@awful.systems 11 points 6 months ago (33 children)

I've been disappointed to see Doctrow's reaction to the AI industry, to say the least. He's spent so much time relentlessly campaigning against intellectual property that he apparently cannot imagine anything worse than intellectual property winning anything ever. I don't think he's a big picture guy, I think the internet just really likes him because at the end of the day he was popular on slashdot and he tells people that piracy is awesome.

[–] o7___o7@awful.systems 10 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (22 children)

I'm no lawyer, I don't even play one on TV, so upfront apologies if I'm hanging my ass out.

That said, it sounds to me like Doctorow might have a point here. Suppose Universal et al. gets a precedent-setting ruling and slays OpenAI. LOL, LMAO even, but then what? What's to keep the current entertainment cartels from making deals with Microsoft or the husks of the AI companies to rev up their own (now) fully legal and licensed bullshit engines? The only winning legal play is Giant Asteroid.

[–] gnomicutterance@awful.systems 12 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

He says some pretty ignorant stuff in this post that undercuts his argument, though:

Here's the problem: establishing that AI training requires a copyright license will not stop AI from being used to erode the wages and working conditions of creative workers. The companies suing over AI training are also notorious exploiters of creative workers, union-busters and wage-stealers. They don't want to get rid of generative AI, they just want to get paid for the content used to create it. Their use-case for gen AI is the same as Openai's CTO's use-case: get rid of creative jobs and pay less for creative labor.

This isn't hypothetical. Remember last summer's actor strike? The sticking point was that the studios wanted to pay actors a single fee to scan their bodies and faces, and then use those scans instead of hiring those actors, forever, without ever paying them again. Does it matter to an actor whether the AI that replaces you at Warner, Sony, Universal, Disney or Paramount (yes, three of the Big Five studios are also the Big Three labels!) was made by Openai without paying the studios for the training material, or whether Openai paid a license fee that the studios kept?

The writers' and actors' strikes, in an overwhelmingly unionized workforce, did not say "hey, we as a labor force want a cut of the dirty GPT lucre". Instead, they said not today, satan to studios working with GenAI at all. And won. Those writers and actors, who are overwhelmingly huge supporters of copyright and moral rights, defeated the rich assholes at the Big Five not by throwing up their hands and giving all their creative output to the glurge machine, but by unionizing and painful, hard-won solidarity.

Whether SAG-AFTRA and the AFM (or non US equivalents) can organize as effectively for musicians and lyricists is unclear. But Cory, who claims to be a leftist, is defaulting to "you as a musician should work for free" and not "you as a musician should organize to counter the power of capital", and that's about as leftist as Grimes posing with The Communist Manifesto.

[–] Evinceo@awful.systems 7 points 6 months ago

Cory, who claims to be a leftist

I read one of his books and I gotta tell ya, his idea of scifi was 'what if the people negatively impacted by DRM were oppressed minorities instead of just first world complainers.'

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