the_dunk_tank
It's the dunk tank.
This is where you come to post big-brained hot takes by chuds, libs, or even fellow leftists, and tear them to itty-bitty pieces with precision dunkstrikes.
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I feel like PSL and FRSO could have some potential, but they seem to have the same political line (not a bad thing) and (in my opinion) PSL leans way too hard into electoral politics (unlike FRSO). It's expensive to campaign and run a candidate, and I feel like there are better ways to spend that money. I also worry that they could eventually turn into trots or socdems in order to pick up voters, though I would prefer if they could grow without that happening. Maybe one day some sort of coalition could form between a Marxist DSA, PSL, and FRSO (possibly even a merger) but the odds of that happening are so slim with the leftist tendency for orgs to split themselves into oblivion.
I'm not opposed to a bit of electoralism but I think electoralism on the national level is a doomed project for the left, local and state level politics are what we need to focus on
Definetly, local elections can matter and do make a difference for communities. They're also easier to win, especially in smaller communities. Locally, it's possible for a party can gain popular support through other organizing efforts rather than just campaigning and asking people to vote for socialism.
We have no interest or illusions that the presidential campaign is going to lead to electoral success. That's not what it's for. It's a platform to spread communist messages and build the party. We do very little other electoral campaigning.
I know that they probably know they have no chance of winning, but there seems to be so much effort go get on the ballot, which is using resources that (again, my opinion) I feel could be better used otherwise. I believe they have good social media outreach (though I'm not on anything else but Hexbear, so someone correct me if I'm wrong), but they could be doing more with how much it costs to run a campaign and get on the ballot in the first place. Now I won't pretend I know what else they do, as it's hard to tell, and no investigation no right to speak, but it really does make me anxious, as history proves that electoral parties tend to de-radicalize in pursuit of votes, and I don't believe PSL would be an exception, even if it was to spread communist/socialist messages. I may be completely wrong on this, but I only see their electoral campaigning, and I saw them at a protest. Like I said, I'm not on social media, so I don't know if they try to educate people overall, but their effort right now seems to be on the electoral campaign and getting on the ballots for different states. I have also heard from others that they tend to go to protests, speak on socialism, market their candidates, and then leave. Many people seem to have better experiences with, and prefer, the presence of DSA overall (this did not seem to be dependent on if they were more radical members or not, and how radical the orgs were did not seem to be a factor). Again I am not sure and I have not seen any of this myself, but it does leave an impression on me (and probably others) when I am actively looking into an org to join. This is all based on my own personal experience and research, and as of right now I feel like my time would be much better spent in DSA, as long as my local chapter aren't straight-up AOC liberals.
I want PSL to succeed, but I have a hard time believing that they will. Pushing themselves as a party to elect seems like an idea that could work in the short term until they fade into obscurity for another 4 years. It's one that I feel could possibly result in some temporary fame or success, but one that would quickly fall flat as soon as the election ended, and they no longer aggressively pushed messaging with the lack of a platform to do so.
The electoral campaign isn't expensive because we don't have any money in the first place. Its two people occasionally traveling around the country and otherwise entirely local work done by members and volunteers.
We fundamentally are not an electoral party. The vast majority of our work is non-electrical and the campaign's purpose is to amplify that, not the other way around.
Literally yesterday a PSL organized protest brought out 100k people to DC and physically surrounded the white house. We do not show up and co-opt - we are the ones that organize in the first place.
How did I not see that had happened, that's a lot of people to get in one place for that kind of organized protest effort! I'm looking for information, and of course mainstream media is vague and lib-coded, but it got their attention, so that's a win. Also:
Does PSL often work with other orgs like DSA and/or FRSO, or do they tend to stick to themselves?
What's the plan for after the election? I know you clarified that they do other things, and the campaign amplifies those things, but what happens when they no longer have that amplification? How do they plan to keep up the momentum? I hope this (or any of this) doesn't come off as rude, I'm genuinely curious and I don't know a lot about how PSL operates.
Yeah they would much rather not report but we are able to pull big enough numbers for these nationwide calls that they can't entirely ignore it.
We have a few nationwide relationships that are very strong. Most prominent is with Palestinian Youth Movement, who we coordinate with at the national and local levels all over the country. Individual branches develop relationships based on their particular conditions. My branch has a good relationship with local DSA and cooperates with them on some Palestine work. There's no local FRSO that I'm aware of so I can't say about that. As a rule we try to avoid beefing with other orgs.
So far our work on Palestine has been far more significant for the growth of our profile and party than the campaign. We work on every struggle that affects the working class and the consistency and strength of our political position, organizing capacity, and internal training program (candidacy) are the reason for our success. We'll continue to do that work. For example, my branch right now is:
continuing to organize for Palestine as part of a local coalition that includes PYM, DSA, USPCN, and some entirely local groups; we are targeting our county for divestment and organizing with healthcare workers for solidarity actions
doing a series of Pride events focused on reclaiming the radical anti-imperialist history of pride - marches, educational panels, etc
organizing black-brown solidarity between working class black folks and Palestinians
running renovations for a local African American Museum in poor condition that is too radical to receive foundation support
operating our physical location, the Liberation Center, as a community space and citywide activist hub
doing clerical support for an AIM run Native American museum
running three separate Juneteenth marches with different focuses, including one that's queer focused
planning for some [redacted] labor organizing
utilizing links between the local Puerto Rican community (of which many members are a part) and the island to build a socialist independence movement
and a few local members are in Cuba on solidarity work as we speak
That's just presently ongoing work - we have done tons of other stuff the last few months, including student encampment support (our members were the first to get arrested) and carrying out a successful ballot access petitioning campaign in coordination with other branches in our state.
Physical Location? That's pretty cool, I was actually going to mention the possibility for a community/third space but I don't think other orgs do that either so it's not like a standard had been set. Also glad to see they are hosting pride events as well, intersectionality is good to see.
It is an objective of every PSL branch to get a Liberation Center set up. It's the main thing dues go towards for our branch, but it massively amplifies our organizing capacity. Plus the cheapest spots are usually in the kinds of neighborhoods where we want to do the most work.
Not just good to see but fundamental to our approach. It is impossible to have a serious liberation movement that doesn't aggressively stand up against all forms of oppression and chauvinism.
I'm practically sold. Hope the SF PSL is as lit as your branch.
I believe that is the first branch 🫡
I was reading about this protest, and I'll be honest it wasn't obvious to me (maybe I just missed it) that the PSL was involved. Which, to me, strikes me as a messaging issue (again I have so little time, so maybe I just missed it). But even ignoring that I definitely get better vibes from PSL vs CPSUSA.
We were deeply involved on every level of planning, staffing, and communication. We don't blast it out because (despite the accusations) that is the opposite of how we operate. But it was my local branch that organized our city's bus caravan and PSL folks doing all the support work - street leadership, A/V, security, and a big chunk of the speakers.
That's really awesome to hear! Is there a prevailing thought behind working behind the scenes as opposed to advertising the org with the event?
For these huge national events it's under the ANSWER coalition, of which we are the largest but not only member. They are the name on the tin for that stuff because we are working in concert with other ANSWER members. And we are explicit about PSL involvement, it's just not the lead org. Local stuff we always put our name on.
Got it, that all seems logical to me! Thanks for the info.
Also, anecdotally, PSL members seem to spend a lot of irl time discussing their electoralist projects. I think electoralism is a valid vehicle but don't think it's strategic to dedicate that much attention to it.