this post was submitted on 24 Jul 2023
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[–] novibe@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I feel that comment is on the vibe of “liberals are leftists”.

Edit: “that comment” as in the one above the one I’m replying to…

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.ml 23 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Libertarians are not leftists.

[–] irmoz@reddthat.com 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Ayn Rand style, "Don't tread on me" objectivists, no. But they just co-opted the term. Libertarianism is pretty much anarchism, which is incomoatible with right wing beliefs, no matter what an-caps try and tell you. A right wing social order necessitates hierarchy, which anarchism is diametrically opposed to.

[–] treefrog@lemm.ee 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Libertarians promote "natural" hierarchy; the ones based on slavery, inheritance, and other mechanisms of white supremacy. And ultimately, the hierarchy of money which translates to power. To say they don't believe in hierarchy when they're the party of the robber baron who believe the bosses have the right to murder striking workers, even child workers, is frankly silly.

It's not on anarchist ideology really because of this and only appeals to disinfranchised people if they haven't bothered to do the math.

[–] irmoz@reddthat.com -2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

It's like you only read two words of my comment. The dickhead rightoidswho call themselves libertarian are NOT libertarian. It is a left wing ideology. You cannot have a society that is both right wing and libertarian. It is impossible.

That is exactly why those fuckheads bring in bullshit like "natural hierarchy", to jam their square beliefs into the round hole that is a classless ideology.

They took a word that already had a meaning, and tried to invert it.

Yes, it is beyond bonkers to suggest that crypto fascists want to flatten hierarchies. That is why it's maddeningly stupid for them to call themselves libertarians. Agreeing with them and calling them libertarians is just feeding their lie.

[–] treefrog@lemm.ee 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

My point was that anarchism is not compatible with capitalism because capital is a form of hierarchy.

And I read your post. Yes, tea party libertarians ultimately lean more big government authoritarian than strict libertarians should.

But libertarians, even ones that aren't in bed with the GOP, aren't anarchist because they ultimately use the power of money and privilege to create hierarchy and control others. They just don't want democracy (i.e. governments) interfering in that power.

That's not anarchy but feudalism.

[–] irmoz@reddthat.com 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

That's exactly what I've been saying... that is why they cannot call themselves libertarians. It's a corruption of what the term means.

[–] novibe@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

While yes, libertarian is originally a leftist term, that’s not what I meant.

I meant the first comment saying most people on new tech are leftists is wrong. Most people who are technophilic are liberals. As in US style Democrat liberals. Which are NOT leftists. At all.

[–] irmoz@reddthat.com 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Why on earth would you say most tech heads are liberal?

[–] novibe@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Why would you say they aren’t ? They all buy in hard into capitalism.

Where are all these leftist techies?

[–] irmoz@reddthat.com 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You think every tech enthusiast "buys hard into capitalism"?

[–] novibe@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago

Hyperbole my friend. Exaggeration.

But to be much more precise and literal: a good amount of them. Likely even a majority, do.

[–] markr@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Depends on which libertarian ideology is being expressed. Left libertarians - anarcho-syndicalists libertarian socialists, anarcho-communists are all libertarians. The right wing of anarchism aren't leftists, the left wing are.