this post was submitted on 05 Jun 2024
251 points (95.3% liked)
Ukraine
8242 readers
558 users here now
News and discussion related to Ukraine
*Sympathy for enemy combatants is prohibited.
*No content depicting extreme violence or gore.
*Posts containing combat footage should include [Combat] in title
*Combat videos containing any footage of a visible human must be flagged NSFW
Donate to support Ukraine's Defense
Donate to support Humanitarian Aid
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Do you think a random Russian citizen who is trying to leave Russia has anything to do with this?
Many of the people trying to leave Russia are against the war. It is idiotic to shame civilians who have little to no power to stop the actions of their oligarch run government.
She says:
Not sure what to make of this. We only have a video of an upset girl. Is she being treated unfairly? Who the fuck knows. All I know is that it plays perfectly into the Kremlin's propaganda: We are the good guys and the world hates us for no good reason.
I don't think Kremlin propaganda involves runaways seeking life elsewhere. Particularly their young women. That's a really bad look for Russia.
Kremlin propaganda constantly involves polishing a turd until it shines. They're going to have that 'bad look' one way or another, how do they twist it to make it work for them.
Turds are all they ever have, and they shine them well.
Actually, it does. It says that the Russian people have nowhere to go. Their only option is to band together (behind Putin).
Edit: Oh, btw. I'm not saying that this video is definitely part of a propaganda campaign. She could also be a victim of propaganda.
The claim is that she is a civilian, not a soldier. The video in no way suggests that soldiers
Disliking the actions of a government is very different from disliking an entire people based on nationality.
Your line of reasoning is very hard to follow. You are alternating between soldiers/civilians and people/individuals. You are arguing against a point I never made. You are not engaging with my concerns. So let me state this again. The video is highly emotional, completely one-sided. Contains no concrete information. And fits perfectly into the Kremlin's propaganda. I wonder if all these Mexicans still hate her after she tells them that she disagrees with Putin and his war.
Do you think Westerners should hate the Russian people (civilians) because Putin is waging war?
If you say no, then you are in agreement with the person in the video, and by your own logic, have fallen for "Kremlin Propaganda".
Russias "nationality" has boiled quite down to hail putin so there's that.
There is no "good old russia" any more.
itt: a bunch of people spoiled by the fortune of not meeting enough actual Russians. They are overwhelmingly supportive of the war as it is fully aligned with the nation’s imperialistic identity, one that existed long before Putin was even born. Russia has amazing, brilliant, heroic opposition activists which are a slim minority, I’ve been told less than 1%. The rest are mostly like this woman (or worse)
You speak as if you believe Russia has freedom of press and right to openly protest. The fact is that the Russian state controls most of the public discourse, and any opposition is crushed. And you would place the blame on the victims of this regime?
EDIT: You seem like the type to believe Putin fairly won the election with 88% of the vote.
There are issues that Russia has right now, and then there is a national identity that they have had for decades and centuries. You seem to not be educated about the latter part. The misinformation is effective and bloodshed in Ukraine is supported because the content and aim resonates with the population. Putin did not have to convince anyone there that Ukrainians (and other neighbor countries) don’t have the right to exist as an independent nation. Even the most popular opposition leader Navalnyi had some horrifying imperialistic quotes, he fully supported the war in Georgia, the thing he was opposing to was corruption, not occupation. And knowing these important details is crucial for understanding just how much of the responsibility for the war falls on the nation and not just Putin.
This is absolutely not true. Many Russians have relatives in the countries which were formerly part of the Soviet Union. There have been many protests within Russia against the war, which were usually met with violent suppression. Many in opposition of the war fled if they were able to.
But I guess Russians just really want to fight against their foreign relatives, simply because they themselves are Russian.
Yeah, there was this one guy who was in power for like 24 years who was a part of the intelligence community before he became a politician. Before he came to power, the entire world wanted the nation gone (and still do). Crazy how having every western government hate you could be used to create a national identity.
If the Russian people are responsible, I guess we should start bombing Russian cities then. That sounds reasonable.
yeah the end of the comment makes it clear that you’re malicious. What you say is utterly immoral and pinning that statement to me is disgusting.
For someone else who does not see why the whole response is answering to claims they themselves made it up (and try to create an illusion that those were my arguments) I am arguing that a random person who clearly displays typical Russian values should not be given a kilometer wide benefit of the doubt. And ignorant people here should stop going out on a limb to keep defending “innocent Russian civilians” and insisting that it’s only Putin that is the problem. Because that claim is factually false and ignorant of Russian civil culture and widespread imperialistic values. I was only explaining a context about Russian civilians that is necessary to keep in mind when being confused by someone like this lady.
I have said before and I will elaborate that I completely admire Russian opposition and would literally never achieve fraction of their courage but despite being many, in a population of hundreds of millions, fraction wise they’re nowhere near being a major portion. I never said every single Russian supports the war, and you trying to push that I did to justify dragging in an unrelated argument about protests is another openly malicious move. It is exhausting to argue when the other person twists your words, whether due to malice or not having skills to analyze statements.
@iarigby @cybersin exactly!
I work with several, you are just a bigot.
I have dozens of Russian friends too, they explained all these things to me, especially since after the war many had to cut off almost everyone starting from family (I mean most of them had already cut off parents or at least a father since they typically beat the shit out of children) to classmates to other acquaintance. They were raised in Russia (those raised in western countries have a totally different background and are less severely impacted culturally) and were adults before Putin had absolute power. They say he just built on top of the identity of violence and imperialism. The Russian philosophers and political scientists they read and watch explain this. Are they bigots too?
People are individuals who are more than the country and government they are from. If you believe that 99% of a country is the same, you are a bigot.
I never claimed I believe that though, what I explain in my comments is vastly different from what you are attempting to pin on me. But you seem to desperately want to name call someone so whatever.
You said that people had "the fortune" of not meeting enough Russians and that less than one percent were in opposition. Perhaps you're are just sloppy with your language, but it sounds like you're just rocking the "one of the good ones" argument, so whatever.
No but that's not a defence for her entitlement. Did she say "look,I totally despise what Russia ia doing in Ukrainians and how its undermining other countires and I don't supoort that".. No, not once did she say that.. Fuck her. I'll save my empathy for the folks slaughtered in Bucha.
I know they're subject to censorship, misinformation, and propaganda at home, but the Russian people still widely support the violent invasion and illegal war on Ukraine. That's why the world doesn't hold a positive view of Russians.
Regardless, this person was simply answering the question and not personally blaming a single Russian immigrant, so why are you shooting the messenger?
How about the person in the video? Did you ask her? She makes no comment on her perspective of the war in the video.
So instead, without any knowledge of her personal views, bigoted people say she deserves to be hated simply because she is Russian, and everyone knows that all Russians love the war and want to eat children.
I completely agree. Not all people are as open minded. I know an Israeli-American with dual citizenship that protested Netanyahu at NYU. People are absolutely not defined by their government. Russian elections are clearly rigged, so it’s even less likely she’s in favor of Putin. I wouldn’t criticize her unless she personally spoke in support of his actions. Unfortunately, I know enough people to be aware that it’s just not how everyone operates.
Her statements in the video suggest otherwise:
"[Russians] have a strong nationality", which to me means they identify with their country and consequently its government. This statement alone says she should be emotionally responsible for her government's actions as it indirectly or tacitly supports them.
"We are not an aggressive people". False. Your nation is currently waging one of a series of aggressive wars in the region of late and there are numerous Russian videos that show how common vehicular accidents have everyone involved (and more) exiting their vehicles armed with melee weapons (crowbars, bats, etc...). Not an aggressive people? Relative to what, the Mongol Horde?
Members of hostile Nations have a burden of proof to show they are willing to play ball with other civilizations. The very fact she's crying about the unfair treatment instead of asking 'why all the hate' and trying to dispel everyone's very reasonable concerns is another strike against.
If she actually sat down and learned what her country was doing to innocent Ukrainians, and publicly denounced their actions she would have my sympathy. Until then she is a citizen of Orkistan, raised to hate the West and believe her governments lies since birth and cannot be trusted.