this post was submitted on 11 May 2024
486 points (98.4% liked)
science
14791 readers
408 users here now
A community to post scientific articles, news, and civil discussion.
rule #1: be kind
<--- rules currently under construction, see current pinned post.
2024-11-11
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Much more likely that no company wants to use it no matter how much it costs because it degrades. We use plastic as a packing material specifically because it doesn't degrade and lasts forever.
On the other hand, many of the things packaged in plastic also degrade, and might be fine for their safe shelf life in either biodegradable plastic or a container with that type of lining. Other liquids could be packaged in glass.
The issue isn’t material choice. It’s that plastic can’t be replaced by most materials because of the current function of our containers.
Let me pitch it like this: go to the grocery store. It’s all plastic. The meat? Plastic container. Milk is in plastic. Water in plastic. They’ll even put your potatoes in a pre-packaged plastic sack.
So the issue is that plastic has made its entire niche and therefore is irreplaceable in that niche. Whereas if we would swap over to reusable milk containers and dispensers or refillable chip bags, we’d be miles ahead even if those were all made of plastic still.
The problem isn’t containers, it’s the existence of disposable packing being the only option.
Why do potatoes need to be wrapped in plastic at all?
Yeah, people forget that form follows function.
The parameters for making a USEFUL plastic that ALSO degrades gives a narrow band. Too degradable, and the function of fulfilling all the areas plastic is currently used for can't happen. Not degradable, and we have the current situation.
Plastic being is in use not simply to fuck the planet over or something, but because compared to other materials it has physical qualities that things like glass, wood, fabric, etc. don't have, that's why it's ended up in so many things. It's lightweight, strong, and "plastic" (that is to say, more easily shaped and molded than other materials, and I suspect there's a labor component too where maybe it needs less labor to shape and form).
I'm eventually going to write a story about a sci-fi world that's under quarantine because they successfully made a plastic-eating bacteria that never stops eating and breaking down plastic. Go there and most of your technology/clothes/etc. are eaten away. I might throw in wood, too...a world with no wood or plastic because the local bacteria is like, "Yum, yum, food!" and gets into every nook and cranny. I anticipate I'll have to do a lot of thinking to figure out how drastically technology would change under these parameters...I imagine a lot of it would be very "brutalist" because you'd have to rely on heavy-as-balls metals and cement and stone and such. Unless there's an Aluminum Future or something, where everything that can be made out of aluminum, can. Of course, there's also the byproducts of intense metals mining to think about on a fictional world like that. Anyway, lots of details to pick apart for worldbuilding.
Don’t forget how it would mess with medical care, given how much medical equipment, especially things like gloves and masks that keep the doctors safe, are plastic.
Yes, depends on what's the behavior of just sitting around outside, getting rained on a bit, sitting in a humid warehouse, exposed to bugs and rodents.
If hypothetically it only breaks down if shredded and mixed into compost, then it may be interesting. However in such a case you'd likely struggle to reliably identify and segregate it from the rest of the plastic waste stream to apply this special treatment without putting bad plastic into the mix.
Especially for packing would be good if it degrades after a determined time. That and bottles.
bingo. ive heard of many of these biodegradable plastics and the main problem is shelf life.
honestly we should go back to CANS in many things. its a solution that has been staring us at the face.
Bio degradable doesn't mean that it will degrade on its own because some bacteria ate it. For example, PLA is bio degradable, but you need an industrial hot composter to turn it back into lactic acid. You can't put it into a waste bin with your banana peel and expect it to degrade, that won't happen.
The problem with many bio degradable plastics is that they also degrade either due to heat exposure (PLA will start softening at around 55°) or due to UV exposure (PLA will fall apart within months to a year when exposed to the sun) or both (like PLA). That means their use is limited. You don't want your glasses to fall apart after a year of use, do you? But if you can use such plastics away from the sun, water, heat, etc, they can last forever.