this post was submitted on 30 Apr 2024
138 points (87.5% liked)

Fuck Cars

9817 readers
788 users here now

A place to discuss problems of car centric infrastructure or how it hurts us all. Let's explore the bad world of Cars!

Rules

1. Be CivilYou may not agree on ideas, but please do not be needlessly rude or insulting to other people in this community.

2. No hate speechDon't discriminate or disparage people on the basis of sex, gender, race, ethnicity, nationality, religion, or sexuality.

3. Don't harass peopleDon't follow people you disagree with into multiple threads or into PMs to insult, disparage, or otherwise attack them. And certainly don't doxx any non-public figures.

4. Stay on topicThis community is about cars, their externalities in society, car-dependency, and solutions to these.

5. No repostsDo not repost content that has already been posted in this community.

Moderator discretion will be used to judge reports with regard to the above rules.

Posting Guidelines

In the absence of a flair system on lemmy yet, let’s try to make it easier to scan through posts by type in here by using tags:

Recommended communities:

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

When you argue for housing reform to legalize denser development in our cities, you quickly learn that some people hate density. Like, really hate density, with visceral disgust and contempt for any development pattern that involves buildings being tall or close together.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] phoneymouse@lemmy.world 30 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (4 children)

Recently got to see Japan and it was eye opening. It’s by far the densest country I’ve been to and also the most functional. The public transit is amazing, as trains can get you literally everywhere, even between cities. There is also hardly a square of wasted space when it comes to housing. Buildings are tall and they are packed. The roads are mostly one way and narrow, except on a few major roads. The cars that do exist are small. I did appreciate seeing what is possible.

That said, the amount of people is intense and you do walk a lot between trains. On one day, I hit 12 miles, and that included lots of public transit. It becomes tiring a bit. If humans want to keep increasing in number, we should do it the Japanese way. But, I also wonder if we shouldn’t just stop breeding so much if we don’t like intense density. Those are basically our choices. If we want to keep breeding, low density is not an option.

[–] FireRetardant@lemmy.world 16 points 8 months ago

Walking 12 miles would be a lot less tiring once you are used to it. I remember it took me 2 weeks to feel normal again when I started biking to work. Plus walking more throughout our days is going to keep us healthier.

[–] Firipu@startrek.website 9 points 8 months ago (1 children)

The walking is a non issue after a few weeks, you won't even realize. I can't remember the last weekday I didn't get under 10k steps without doing any non essential walking. You'll be much healthier for it.

[–] tiredofsametab@kbin.run -1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Unless you're in a wheelchair or on crutches in which case moving around a lot of Tokyo gets really ugly and taxis are both slow and quite expensive.

[–] Firipu@startrek.website 4 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

Have you been to Tokyo in a wheelchair? Tokyo is one of the most accessible major cities in the world. Its crazy how accessible it is (including public transport) compared to any other city in eg the EU or Asia.

No idea how accessible US cities are, but from what I gather, they are car centric, so it's a whole different way of moving.

[–] akakunai@lemmy.ca 5 points 8 months ago

And get fucked if you cannot drive for one reason or another in a car-dependent city/sprawling amalgamated mess.

[–] tiredofsametab@kbin.run 1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

It's not all of Japan that's like that. I live in rural Japan. It's a 50 minute walk to the nearest train station, the trains frequently don't run on time and are sometimes cancelled for parts of or whole days.

In dense Tokyo, people constantly have to deal with thin walls and petty neighbors. Concrete buildings come at a premium. Frequently, cigarette smoke coming in from windows or range hoods is an issue. There's definitely a lot given up with people getting constant shit from neighbors because their kids have the audacity to move and make noises kids make.

It's not all roses here. I definitely would urge anyone to try living in Japan for a while before actually writing about it.

Edit to add: love hotels are a thing in part because of how thin walls are in apartments. Central heat/AC is mostly not a thing here, if you're used to that. Clothes dryers are also not generally used outside of particularly cold/rainy areas. Housing is cheap in part because land may appreciate but houses/flats are not investments that will sell for more than you paid later; most things are still built to last about 30-40 years before the next generation will take them, gut them (or knock them down in the case of houses), and rebuild.

Edit2: forgot another gripe: technically/legally, most verandas/balconies are public space (as they are parts of fire escape routes) and you're not allowed to put anything like plants or furniture there. It varies based on building type and isn't super enforced (I grew a lot of plants when I lived in an apartment, but it was only me who would be negatively impacted if I needed to escape via my veranda).

[–] Dkarma@lemmy.world -3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Ooh now do hong Kong and realize the USA would be even worse.

[–] Obi@sopuli.xyz 2 points 8 months ago

I lived 6 months in HK and I loved the city, it's an amazing place. And that's from someone that doesn't like big cities like Paris, New York, LA, etc. I do like Singapore, London, Amsterdam and others but generally prefer the countryside. In my case the only sucky thing is we were in a shared flat but if you can get your hands on something even remotely decent and your own, you can have a great time there. Just spend all your time outside, the city never sleeps and eating out and entertainment is cheap. Small apartment is fine for your recovery/private time needs. Of course the political situation has changed a bit since I was there but that doesn't change anything to the urban planning/lifestyle argument. Again, from someone currently living in a village house and planning on going remote-ish at some point.